Remembered Today:

david west

24th Field Ambulance

100 posts in this topic

My late grandmothers brother 1914 Pte Frederick Henry Bailey, 24th (1st Wessex) Field Ambulance, R.A.M.C (Territorial Force) was killed on 1st July 1916, he is buried in Ribemont Communal Cemetery Extension on the Somme. I know that he came from the Exeter/Exmouth area and that his parents were a Mr R.H Bailey and Annie Bailey, can anyone tell me some more about this soldier and the unit he served with up to his death in 1916 ? I think 24th Field Ambulance may have been a part of 8th Division.

There has been a book published called "Heavitree Roll of Honour 1914-18" (heavitree being a parish of Exeter) where his name is mentioned, but this book is very difficult to get hold of, anyway i hope someone out there is in "the know".

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave

http://www.1914-1918.net/8div.htm

gives the moves for this Division. The three Field Ambulances attached are shown way down the page.

Sotonmate

Thanks for the info..

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 4   Posted (edited)

I'm a professor at the high school "Institution Notre Dame des Anges" in the town of Saint-Amand-les-Eaux in Northern France and doing research concerning 24th (1st Wessex) Field Ambulance. This reseach is done in preparation of ceremonies next year when we'll be celebrating the centennial of the end of the Great War.

Ceremonies will be organised by the town (I reckon the CO of 243 Field Hospital, the unit that continues the tradition of 24th (1 Wessex) Field Ambulance, will be invited) and by our school.

The field ambulance turned our school into a hospital in october 1918. After having taken care of approximately 2000 French civilians in the town, the unit received the French Croix de Guerre with bronze star. The unit's war diary shows that the Croix de Guerre was received in the town of Engien, during a parade, on 31st January 1919 from the hands of French general Degoutte, commanding the 5th French Army. Another Croix de Guerre was issued to the CO of 24th Field Ambulance, LCol R. Burgess, DSO, MC.

 

My first question/request:

Does 243 Field Hospital possess the original certificate that goes with the Croix de Guerre? It should mention the date and place of issue, the French commanding officer that awarded the Croix the Guerre and a detailed description of the actions that motivate the issueing of the medal. I'd be most interested in finding a copy (scan or photograph) of this certificate.

 

In the attick of the school's chapel, close to the quarters where wounded were tended, inscriptions of 8 British soldiers can be seen that date from 1918. These must have been patients. I list the names (most probably all privates) below with, if and when possible, the unit they belonged to:

- Pte R. Cyrn or Cyril - 2nd Bn, The Royal berkshire Regt - 25th infantry brigade - 8th div

- Slocombe - same unit

- Pte D. Stokes - "Late O.B.L.I." - same unit

- N.J.Turner - Nov 8th, 1918 - same unit

- O. Fuller - Oct 21st 1918 - 1st Bn, the Sherwood Foresters - 24th infantry brigade - 8th div

- D.F. Wilkins 

- Lowe

- M.Mallett

 

Next year, the Headmaster would like to invite surviving family of these soldiers to come to our school, view the traces of their ancestors and participate in the ceremonies as guests of honour.

 

My second question/request:

I'd like to find out how these soldiers could be identified. Are there still patient files of 24th Field Ambulance from 1918 in some archives? If yes, where and could these be consulted? If not, would it be possible to consult military files (military register or demob files) of the Royal Berkshire Regiment and the Sherwood Foresters? 

 

My third question/request:

Is there any pictorial archive of 24th Field Ambulance  from which copies of photographs can be obtained?


Thanking you beforehand.
With kindest regards,

Andre de la Bruyère

 

My email address is aldelabruyere(a)free.fr

 

Edited by aldlb57

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre

 

Welcome to the Forum !

You will likely get responses here to small parts at a time from several, or many, contributors !

To give you some encouragement here is one element which fits a soldier you list quite well. It is the Medal Card and shows David STOKES as firstly OBLI (Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry) , and secondly Royal Berkshire, as it shows in your attic ! This last service number is 45323 as I clipped some of the photo ! He served in 5 Battalion OBLI and 2 Battalion Royal Berkshire.

The soldier first landed in France on 1 October 1915 and was discharged to Class Z Army Reserve on 29 March 1919, so survived his time in your attic !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.....and another soldier who seems to have followed the same pattern of service, except that he didn't arrive in France until after 1915. As there is no mention on the Medal Card of whether he survived to discharge, nor for that matter that he died, it may be that he continued as a soldier after the war was over :

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 7   Posted (edited)

I am having difficulty with your first name CYRN or CYRIL ! No card seen as yet. Can you post a photo of the name ? It may help to interpret other possibilities.

 

24 Field Ambulance has a War Diary which is digital and downloadable for a small fee, here:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352473

These diaries do not ordinarily show casualty names, just a summary of daily business in general terms. If casualties went on to higher treatment centres they were entered in a Register at that centre, most of which do not survive to this day.There are sample registers at our National Archives but these represent only a very small percentage of the overall medical effort, and there was no strict demarcation in terms of casualty routing.

Edited by sotonmate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David,

 

Sounds like you may be in need of the 24th Field Ambulance diary, available for £3.45 from TNA.

It gives the locations of the various posts they operated 1/7/16. HQ was in Henecourt Wood along with the Main Dressing Station which is fairly close to Bailey's original burial location. They also ran the Divisional Collecting Post, an Advanced Dressing Station and had stretcher bearers collecting from no man's land, various routes are described.

 

There is also quite a detailed map of the evacuation route from front line Aid Posts back to Main Dressing Station etc.

 

Bailey also shows on a WO Official Casualty List 14/10/1915 as wounded. Probably wounded circa 21/9/1915 around Doulieu - Sailly-sur-la-Lys.

 

He also shows on a WO list dated 20/7/1916 as died of wounds. There are no other details on these lists.

 

He gets a mention in the Western Times of 21/7/1916 along with other Devon men, his report says 'previously reported wounded now reported died of wounds'. I can get the newspaper article tomorrow unless you've already seen it.

 

The Main Dressing Station was at V.26.b.4.4 and his original burial was at V.26.b.2.2 so almost undoubtedly he was taken to the MDS and died of wounds there.

 

TEW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

Andre

 

I have seen a few pages of the 24 FA War Diary via Ancestry UK and there is mention of your location around the last few months of the war. As suspected there is little data on the casualties. It has occurred to me that there is a possibility that the soldiers you mention may also have been a guard duty for the Ambulance, but quite why they would be in the attic would not be my first choice as a Guard Commander ! I have often seen where infantrymen have been allocated to medical units for that purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

45198 Richard C SLOCOMBE 2 Battalion Royal Berkshire. Joined the war after 1915. No discharge date or death shown on Medal Card or Medal Roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

92774 Irving Oswald FULLER into war post-1915 with 7 Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment) and later (when he wrote his name in your attic ) 1st Battalion.No discharge date or death shown on Medal records.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 12   Posted (edited)

Dear friends,

 

I am overwhelmed by your kind and expert advice as well as spectacular search results!

 

The inscriptions were found on the second floor of the building where a dormitory was situated. To convert this dormitory into a hospital ward should have been an easy task.

 

Would it be possible that these chaps were off guard duty? Why not. However, they were from at least two different battalions that each belonged to a different infantry brigade. Would it be logical for 24 FA to have guard personnel detached from two different brigades?

Another option is that these were patients. Walking wounded to be precise as they managed to explore that floor of the building and left their signature on a chalky piece of wall in a forgotten corner.

 

“Slocombe” and “Cyril” or “Cyrn” engraved their name together there, putting “2nd Royal Berkshire Regiment” behind it and drawing a circle around the inscription as if to indicate that they were buddies.  Please have a look at the inscription.Cyril - Slocombe.jpg

 

Slocombe.jpg

Edited by aldlb57
A previous message was copied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please have a look at the Wilkins and Fuller inscriptions.

Wilkins - Fuller original.jpg

Wilkins - Fuller original 2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please have a look at the Mallet inscription. It looks as though another started to write his name but did not finish as it reads "Durh". Durham?

Mallett - Durh...jpg

Please have a look at the very neat Stokes inscription.

Stokes original.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And finally the Lowe inscription.

Lowe original.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 16   Posted (edited)

I acquired the 24 FA war diary which provides useful information about the itinerary of the unit and remarkable events, such as the catastrophic refugee status in the town of Saint Amand in october 1918 and the receiving of the Croix de Guerre in january 1919.

Are there other sources available in order to identify these british soldiers further? I visited the website www.forces-war-records.co.uk but a search with Slocombe's regimental number and name did not bear the same result.

Perhaps there are other military sources such as military records, 24 FA patient files or other? Where could one find their date of birth, birthplace, names of parents, addresses? The objective being to retrace still living relatives.

Edited by aldlb57

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 17   Posted (edited)

Andre

 

Thanks for adding the exciting scratchings, they bring this thread to life !

I shall read, but for the moment I see directly that R Cyril and Slocombe is but one name, as shown at my post #10 !

There seem to be other,later scratchings, I see 1961, plus some other nationality names, a flowery hand saying Paul Potensky (iy), a Franck Bertrand ? etc.....M Dubois 1899 !! ?

Edited by sotonmate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre

 

I think this is your MALLETT. Circumstancial evidence is that he was 2nd Battalion Devonshire, another component of 23 Infantry Brigade of 8 Division. Your Sherwood soldier was 24 Brigade and your 2 Royal Berkshires were 25 Brigade. There are no other MALLETTs listed with so close a connection as in normal level hostilities (apart from battles that is, when things might get confused or over-worked !) there is a linked three Field Ambulance (23/24/25) system to a Division (8). They are matched to their own Brigade but not always taking only their own soldiers, so nothing odd about a 23 Brigader being in 24 FA ! The first of the 2 numbers is for his Training Battalion, the second his fighting Battalion. He was discharged to Class Z Army Reserve on 7 March 1919 :

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, aldlb57 said:

 

My first question/request:

Does 243 Field Hospital possess the original certificate that goes with the Croix de Guerre? It should mention the date and place of issue, the French commanding officer that awarded the Croix the Guerre and a detailed description of the actions that motivate the issueing of the medal. I'd be most interested in finding a copy (scan or photograph) of this certificate.

 

 

Have you contacted that unit ?

http://www.army.mod.uk/medical-services/29934.aspx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: R Cyril Slocombe, I have found a Private Richard C Slocombe - might be him? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5198113 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 21   Posted (edited)

sJ

 

Hi ! Yes, that's his MIC at Post #10.

A new slant on going to see someone's etchings !

 

Andre,

 

Getting down to some family tree search, there seem to be some with a tree on Ancestry UK. None with a published direct line to living members but you might be lucky to get some leads. I will refine what I found later. Soldier FULLER certainly has a good chance of descendants. He had a son of the exact same name and you will need to explore a bit to bring it to modern time.

Edited by sotonmate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 22   Posted (edited)

1911 Census

Richard Cyril Slocombe. Born 1899, Camelford Cornwall. Address Banks Street, Newquay, Cornwall, Father boot shop manager. Richard was the youngest of three sons.

 

Post-war he was a Tax Clerk with the Inland Revenue.

 

Probate Records

Richard Cyril Slocombe - died 7th June 1933. Address "Dunheved" Milton Lane, Wells Somerset.  Probate granted to his widow Frances Irene Slocombe.

 

TR

Edited by Terry_Reeves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Milton Lane, Wells Somerset.

 

I know that road! Wonder whether the house is still there under that name ...

1 hour ago, sotonmate said:

Yes, that's his MIC at Post #10.

Yikes, sorry I missed that! :) yours is the credit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 24   Posted (edited)

Andre

 

I have found no links to service or pension records for any of these soldiers. Over 75% of these records were lost in a 1940 bombing of London.

Maxwell MALLETT ; Irving FULLER (if you look carefully at the photo you can see I O FULLER) ; Richard SLOCOMBE and a Norman J TURNER have Family Trees on Ancestry UK. All seem to be less than 20 years old in 1918. The Trees need developing and maybe others here know more about this than me . There are also Wills which are likely to show other descendants, but these don't appear on the section of Ancestry UK that I read.

 

One thing I meant to mention at the beginning of this process ! It would have been more effective if you had begun a new subject rather than adding to another, which, maybe, members here would not pay as much attention to. I would suggest that if you get any residual difficulties in identifying these men that you open a new subject for your Centenary commemoration and describe your information shortfalls.

Edited by sotonmate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And going back to the original topic:

 

Two Newspaper Articles on Bailey.

Western Times 10/7/1916

bailey1.jpg

 

Western Times 21/7/1916

bailey3.jpg

 

Seems a bit odd for his mate to write a letter (to Bailey's parents?) saying he'd been instantaneously killed.

TEW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now