Remembered Today:

trenchtrotter

RND Cemetery, Ancre.

48 posts in this topic

Other than map reference Q17 Central does anyone know the exact position for this cemetery? After the war the bodies were exhumed and concentrated in the Ancre British Cemetery.

I suppose given its size (336 bodies) the above may cover it?

Thanks.

TT

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A quick look in the White Cross Touring Atlas on the way out doesn't show it listed and no apparent candidate midway between BH and Hamel unless the WCTA has misplaced one.

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R.N.D. CEMETERY (V Corps Cemetery No.21), in the open country midway between Beaumont-Hamel and Hamel. It contained the graves of 336 officers and men from the United Kingdom, mainly of the Royal Naval Division.
SHERWOOD CEMETERY (V Corps Cemetery No.20), about 700 metres North-West of the R.N.D. Cemetery. It contained the graves of 176 officers and men from the United Kingdom, belonging chiefly to the 36th and Royal Naval Divisions, the 17th Sherwood Foresters and the 17th King's Royal Rifles.

The above from CWGC., Maybe the grave registration doc refers to them as being the cemetery they were from?

I only looked at one entry which says the body was exhumed from Q17 Central but maybe other entries have the full co ordinates?

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John that was my starting point too.

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I suppose CWGC were more interested in the final burial rather than the exact place they were exhumed from? Maybe a war diary gives the full co ordinates?

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Tim, someone has pinpointed this before a while back, I will keep looking.

Peter Woodger might know.

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Could it have been here or close by?

BEAUCOURT STATION CEMETERY, begun after the capture of Beaucourt by the R.N.D. on the 14th November 1916, and containing the graves of 85 officers and men from the United Kingdom who fell in November 1916 - March 1917. It was close to Beaucourt-Hamel station

Maybe a trench map of a couple of years later might show it.

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Centre of Q17 is the right area. Between BH and H and on Brit front line. Also where 17 N and D were. I suppose it would cover a largish area so Q 17 may be as good as it gets? John don't think it's as above?

TT

Tim, someone has pinpointed this before a while back, I will keep looking.

Peter Woodger might know.[/quote

Thanks. I did try a search

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Hi TT

I attach a view taken from the Ulster Tower, I was standing next to Teddy and we both believe that the white area in the centre of the picture is caused by the burial and later exhumation of the bodies in RND cemetery. This does not give you a trench map reference but if you look at aerial view P006187 on the WFA disc you can clearly see Ancre cemetery as it was in 1918. I believe that you can also see RND on the same picture.

A long time ago I did some work, which I can not trace, which showed that RND was in the very top left corner of Q17 d

Hope this is of some use.

Peter

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I never remember to press the right burron

post-14342-0-62393900-1428900484_thumb.j

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TT

I have had to crop the aerial photo P006187 very hard but hope you can see Ancre cemetery bottom right. If you look top left, just in no man's land I believe the object showing a lot of white is RND.

Peter

post-14342-0-53790800-1428901322_thumb.j

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I am having a bad morning. the picture above shows what I believe to be RND but cut off ANCRE. I have cropped it more and just show the view of Ancre on this one

post-14342-0-47331500-1428901709_thumb.j

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Peter

I am very very grateful for your time and help. It makes sense and was where I had it on my 1:20000 map. Top left Q17 D is also in line with CWGC location. One of my relatives was originally buried there but now in the Ancre as mentioned. The view from the Ulster Tower is interesting. It is also about where the 17 th Notts and Derby attacked 3/9/16 so all points to it.

Thanks again

TT

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I wonder if ferreting around in the field with the white patch might yield some metal name strips from the original wooden crosses?

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Ian,

Possibly not. It is my guess (opinion only) that the metal tags on the wooden crosses would have been placed over the grave after exhumation and transfer to the Ancre? The original grave markers in the RND would more likely be the battlefield type markers one sees. Rough non matching markers made on a more ad hoc basis? I dont know. If however the RND cemetery was made by the GRU and was perhaps going to be a more permanent one maybe?

Either way, should one ever be so lucky to find that of Francis Henry Tebbutt, Nelson Battalion, killed 13/11/16 I would be most grateful to know and pass onto his nephew.

As a side all the tags I have been luckey enough to find (and quite a few) have come from adjacent to current CWGC Cemeteries with the exception of one small fragment marked "nknown" which was in the field by the road betweenBernafay Wood and Trones Wood.

Regards

TT

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Maybe an email to CWGC asking for original location?

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I think we have nailed it from their reference Q 17 centre and Peters posts. I knew it was Q17 Centre but wanted to zero in if poss. But given its size it would have covered several coordinates so they listedit as Q 17 C etc. They have this coordinate for where Francis was exhumed along with many others so no need for above. The chalk marks do tie in both on the aerials and thesuper shot from the Tower.

Regards

TT

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That's excellent detective work and great to confirm definitively where the cemetery used to lie.

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TT

I assume that you are aware that Tebbutt was in the original group buried in RND by the 37th Division in late November 1916. He was buried in Row 4 grave 12. You may not have seen the DD Record of another man that says that RND had "4 trenches numbers reading from east to west"

Peter

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Peter, Was not aware so thanks. What is DD please......sorry if stupid q. Do you mean burial trenches?

TT


Norm, late thanks for your image. Clear mark isnt there.

TT

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DD is Discharged Dead, a rather unsubtle Naval term which I guess equates to a sailor being discharged from his ship.

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Thanks for above

TT

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A number of years ago a friend of mine and I stopped at the now closed shop and tea room located just to the left of the old train station at Beaucourt.

The business is not open now. The owner,a Frenchman, told us there had been a cemetery located between his business and the road/rail crossing toward Grandcourt.

I can't remember if he said the cemetery had been moved or just forgotten and built over. I do not remember if he said it was a British or German cemetery but I do remember

him showing us a map indicating the cemetery at that location.

I believe the tearoom was called the RND Tearoom. Probably not the place you are looking for, just for information purposes.

Gene

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High Wood is correct on the DD records. They belong at the Naval Air Museum at Yeovilton and are also mow on line via, I think, Ancestry. The cards summarise, inter alia, the communications between the Navy and the next of Kin which is where the info on which man was buried in the various cemeteries around Ancre comes from. I should clarify that the 4 rows in RND was the state in 1916. I do not know what shape it was by the time V Corps finished with it.

Gene The cemetery near the Station was Beaucourt Station Cemetery, another started by 37th Division in November 1916 and added to by V Corps in the Spring of 1917 then concentrated to Ancre British cemetery in 1919.

Peter

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