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T8HANTS

I've just found the spoon of a hero - I think

17 posts in this topic

Sorting through some stuff for a show I have to do tomorrow, I found one of the army spoons I used to buy in jumble sales years ago.

Marked RE 621, I thought I would look up it's late owner, who turns out to be, Frederick John Holman of the 2/3rd London Field Company. RE.

A nice low number, now If I am reading what FMP is telling me correctly 621 Holman F. joined the Territorial in 1912 and is indexed as being awarded the MM.

I was going to post a picture of the spoon, but the camera needs recharging so that might come later. 

Typical period army spoon with the wear to the right tip and a makers mark of what looks like a strung bugle horn similar to the light infantry.

I have been completely distracted from sorting my show material, so I will have to get back to Spr Holman later, to try and find what he did for his MM, if I am correct.

Rather chuffed if it is correct.

 

G

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MM  LONDON GAZETTE     entry 3rd June 1916

 

Medal card of Holman, Frederick  (national archives)

Corps   Regiment No    Rank

Royal Engineers            621                 Corporal 2nd

Royal Engineers            550042            Corporal 2nd

Royal Engineers            WR/307658     Corporal 2nd

 

His 1914-15 star on medal roll as 621

BWM and VM as   WR/307658

 

Ray

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Looks like men didn't bother to change their marked numbers when they were renumbered. Not surprising really! I wonder if old numbers were considered when trying to identify a casualty by his belongings.

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ID: 4   Posted (edited)

He took some bullets!

8 hours ago, T8HANTS said:

Sorting through some stuff for a show I have to do tomorrow, I found one of the army spoons I used to buy in jumble sales years ago.

Marked RE 621, I thought I would look up it's late owner, who turns out to be, Frederick John Holman of the 2/3rd London Field Company. RE.

A nice low number, now If I am reading what FMP is telling me correctly 621 Holman F. joined the Territorial in 1912 and is indexed as being awarded the MM.

I was going to post a picture of the spoon, but the camera needs recharging so that might come later. 

Typical period army spoon with the wear to the right tip and a makers mark of what looks like a strung bugle horn similar to the light infantry.

I have been completely distracted from sorting my show material, so I will have to get back to Spr Holman later, to try and find what he did for his MM, if I am correct.

Rather chuffed if it is correct.

 

G

That's how service records read to me.

 

Puts him in the 520th Fld Coy.

 

60th Div til Mar 15, the 47th Div from June 15

 

He took some bullets!

 

REgards

 

Andy

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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ID: 5   Posted (edited)

From the WD of 2/3 Fd Coy RE.

Screenshot_20170519-164746.jpg

Screenshot_20170519-165900.jpg

 

Ypres 1915

 

 

20170519_170625.jpg

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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I'm afraid that your conclusion may be incorrect. RE numbers, like RGA were company specific so there are many 621 r numbers, 26 showing at the NA. It is actually impossible to know who's spoon it may have been!

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Thanks for the info one and all!

It would appear that 2/3rd Fd Coy were involved in something quite dramatic for such a generous issue of MMs and the MC.

I would assume the incident was some days or weeks before the awards being posted by Div.

 

However to assume makes, etc so as has just been pointed out, (half way through my typing this) the spoon may not be as exclusive as I had hoped.

Which is very much like another spoon in my collection, given to my by the daughter of the owner and a treasured memento of her late father.

Only it wasn't his, it belonged to one of his mates, the numbers were wrong, so he either 'borrowed' it off a pal or was given it,  was wounded, hospitalized and discharged with it still in his possession.  Identification by cutlery is very dodgy.

 

Attached picture of spoon

SAM_3867a.jpg

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First wound didn't hit the Times until 13th April 1915 and the second 9th May

Screenshot_20170519-175905.jpg

Screenshot_20170519-175833.jpg

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ID: 9   Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, T8HANTS said:

Thanks for the info one and all!

It would appear that 2/3rd Fd Coy were involved in something quite dramatic for such a generous issue of MMs and the MC.

I would assume the incident was some days or weeks before the awards being posted by Div.

 

However to assume makes, etc so as has just been pointed out, (half way through my typing this) the spoon may not be as exclusive as I had hoped.

Which is very much like another spoon in my collection, given to my by the daughter of the owner and a treasured memento of her late father.

Only it wasn't his, it belonged to one of his mates, the numbers were wrong, so he either 'borrowed' it off a pal or was given it,  was wounded, hospitalized and discharged with it still in his possession.  Identification by cutlery is very dodgy.

 

Attached picture of spoon

SAM_3867a.jpg

From what I briefly read in the WD, they doing were typical Sapper stuff, extended trench fortified positions, water supply and a great drawing of a bathing pool area in the trenches.

 

Andy

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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Post 4 shows him as II Corp - there's an Act Cpl and a L/Cpl there too. What's a II Corp?

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4 minutes ago, PhilB said:

Post 4 shows him as II Corp - there's an Act Cpl and a L/Cpl there too. What's a II Corp?

Brain is ticking it was on another thread a while back....???

 

 

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ID: 12   Posted (edited)

Hi G,

 

1 hour ago, KONDOA said:

I'm afraid that your conclusion may be incorrect. RE numbers, like RGA were company specific so there are many 621 r numbers, 26 showing at the NA. It is actually impossible to know who's spoon it may have been!

 

That's what I thought. How did you make the connection specifically to Holman? 

 

Regards

Chris

Edited by clk

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Slightly at a tangent, why is it worn on the right side? If it was used in the right hand wouldn't it have worn on the left side?

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Answering the II Corp query:-

 

Second Corporal (2nd Cpl.). This was a uniquely RE rank which fell between the ranks of Lance
Corporal and Corporal

4 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

Slightly at a tangent, why is it worn on the right side? If it was used in the right hand wouldn't it have worn on the left side?

Maybe he was left handed?

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2 hours ago, clk said:

Hi G,

 

 

That's what I thought. How did you make the connection specifically to Holman? 

 

Regards

Chris

Simply because when I did the FMP search this morning he was all that came up, so thats what caused my initial assumption that it was individually identifiable .

When I ran it through again just now the whole list came up, but it was fun whilst it lasted and I can also say it can't be proven it wasn't Holman's spoon, just unlikely.

2 hours ago, Gardenerbill said:

Slightly at a tangent, why is it worn on the right side? If it was used in the right hand wouldn't it have worn on the left side?

The other spoon that surfaced with the Holman spoon is worn on the left side, so I suspect the handedness of the owners is the major factor here, followed by in which direction would they stir.

 

The second spoon is marked HTS 26206, which I think should be Hampshire Regiment, but I cant find an owner for that one.

 

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It will be worn on the left side because in right handed people it is the left of the spoon that interfaces with the bowl or plate.

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8 hours ago, KONDOA said:

It will be worn on the left side because in right handed people it is the left of the spoon that interfaces with the bowl or plate.

Also not unknown for the left side of the spoon to have been slightly sharpened so as the spoon also did duty for a knife and fork becoming a multi purpose tool.

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