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broadtown

RNAS Airship Stations

24 posts in this topic

Hi Chaps,

A few years ago English Heritage, as part of their 'Thematic listings programme' suggested that there were 60 Airship Stations around the UK during the Great War. To date I have located 25. Is EH right?

Best wishes

Bob

www.clarkeology.co.uk

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Ces Mowthorpe's book "Battlebags" lists 28 sites, of which 12 were "RNAS Airship Stations" and the rest "sub-stations/mooring-out sites". I can't find anything to suggest that there was a smaller class of site than the latter, so I suspect EH is talking through it's hat.

Adrian

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I suspect EH is talking through it's hat.

Indeed! They have a tendancy to do that. I have learnt that it is always better to check the facts than accept their printed word.

Thanks for the heads up on Ces. Interestingly my old mum used to live opposite him. Small world. Sounds like I have sussed them then.

Best wishes

Bob

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So:

"I suspect EH is talking through it's hat.

Indeed! They have a tendancy to do that. I have learnt that it is always better to check the facts than accept their printed word."

As someone who works for EH, this sort of thing gets pretty tiresome after a while. If you have a problem or query with something, why not contact us first? EH's National Monuments Record is based, as you know Bob, in Swindon, and isn't difficult to contact. Details for the NMR can be found at www.english-heritage.org.uk.

On my desk I have a copy of the Thematic Listing Programme volume "Survey of Military Aviation Sites and Structures: Summary Report" (May 2003). Section 4.4.0 is entitled 'Hangars 1910-1918). Para 4.4.2 includes the statement "the country's total of...airship sheds had increased to 61 by November 1918" - sheds, note - not stations. The summary table mistakenly refers to 'Airship Stations'. The data is based on information in Natioanl Archives file AIR 1 452/15/312/26. The volume can be found on shelf 7.2.2 in the NMR's reference library, open to the public Tuesday to Friday every week.

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Sorry to have caused offence. But as you say, there is confusion over whether we are talking of "stations" or "sheds". I would have been surprised if Mowthorpe was wrong.

Adrian

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Point accepted Martyn, however as you point out 'mistaken number in table'. My question was 'how many Airship Stations as EH suggest 60' not sheds as the text states. And if we want to be pedantic a large number of stations had two sheds on them so that reduces the station figure again.

As an aside both Mowthorpe and EH may be right. I think that by the time you add all the temporary mooring sites into the melting pot the figure could well be around 60.

Good fun these forums.

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Good Evening Bob

My wifes Grandad wasin the Royal Naval Air Service.He was stationed at the Royal Naval Airship Station

at a place called Longside.We have a photograph of the unit taken on the 17th January 1919.I dont know

where Longside is so you will have to look that one up.

Best Regards.

Andy

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Andy

Longside was the northernmost Airship Station, in Angus.

As far as I can tell, it mostly operated the larger Coastal Class (as in my avatar) and North Sea Class blimps.

Adrian

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It's a bit long, but try thid

ANGLESEY (Llangfni) 3 miles from Llangfni railway station and 5 miles from Gaerwen railway station

106/114 : (23) SH 437758 : Isle of Anglesey (Gwynedd), Wales : 242 acres : 1600 x 1200 yards : 185 feet amsl.

Class B Airship Station (with sub-station at Malahide) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 26.9.1915 – 1919 : Temporary Marine Operation Station RAF 6.1918 – 8.1918.

AULDBAR (Montrose) 3¾ miles from Auldbar Road railway station and east of the Auldbar – Brechin road

50/54 : (37) NO 570560A : Forfarshire (Grampian), Scotland.

Mooring out station (sub-station to Longside) for non-rigid airships RAF 31.7.1918 – 1919.

BALLYLIFFAN

55º17’25”N 07º23’00”W : County Down, Ireland.

Airship Station for non-rigid airships (sub-station to Luce Bay) under construction for RAF 1918.

BARKING (Creekmouth)

161/177 : (51) TQ 450830 : Essex (London Borough of Barking).

Private airship station taken over by RNAS 6.1916 for the unrealised construction of the MacMechan airship.

BARLOW (Selby) 3 miles from Selby railway station

95/105 : (44) SE 660294 : Yorkshire, West Riding (North Yorkshire) : 880 acres : 3760 x 2260 yards.

Airship Construction Station RNAS/RAF leased to Sir WG Armstrong Whitworth & Co Ltd for the construction and testing of rigid airships 1916 – 1920. Relinquishment confirmed 11.8.1921.

BARROW-IN-FURNESS (Cavendish Dock)

88/96 : (34) SD 215683 : Lancashire (Cumbria) : Dock area 142 acres.

Airship Construction Station for Vickers Sons & Maxim : Base for hydro-aeroplane experiments under the auspices of HMS Hermione Flying Club, that was formed for the purpose.

BARROW-IN-FURNESS (Walney Island) 1½ miles from Barrow Central railway station

88/96 : (34) SD 175700 : Lancashire (Cumbria) : 325 acres : 1730 x 1186 yards : 25 feet amsl.

Airship Construction Station RNAS/RAF leased to Vickers Ltd for the construction of rigid airships 6.1914 – 4.1921 : Relinquishment confirmed 25.8.1921.

BEDFORD (Cardington) 3 miles from Bedford railway station

147/153 : (52) TL 085465 : Bedfordshire : 1064 acres : 3150 x 230 yards.

Airship Construction Station RNAS/RAF leased to Short Bros for the construction of rigid airships 1917 – continued in service.

BUDE

174/190 : (21) SS 238013 : Cornwall.

Mooring our station (sub-station to Mullion) for non-rigid airships RAF 1918 – 1919.

CALDALE no railways on island, boat to Thurso on mainland Scotland

06/06 : (N30) HY 417105 : Mainland, Orkney Islands : 146 acres.

Class B Airship Station and Kite Balloon Base RNAS/RAF 7.1916 – 1919.

CAPEL (Capel-le-Ferne/Folkestone) 2 miles from Folkestone Junction railway station

173/179 : (61) TR260390 : Kent : 124 acres : 960 x 780 yards : 465 feet amsl.

Class C Airship Station (with sub-stations at Godmersham Park, Wittersham and Boulogne) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 5.1915 – 8.1920.

CHATHILL

71/75 : (46) NU 193273 : Northumberland

Mooring out station (sub-station to East Fortune) for non-rigid airships RAF 22.7.1918 – 1919.

CRAMLINGTON II Cramlington railway station adjoined the site

78/88 : (45) NZ 254782 : Northumberland : 57 acres : 870 x 680 yards : 200 feet amsl

Class D Airship Station under construction at the time of the Armistice.

CRANWELL (HMS Daedalus) 4 miles from Sleaford railway station and 4 miles from Caythorpe railway station

113/130 : (53 TF 010510 (North aerodrome) and TF 015490 (South aerodrome) : Lincolnshire : 2466 acres (combined area) : 4200 x 2800 yards (combined dimensions) : 200 feet amsl (North aerodrome) and 220 feet amsl (South aerodrome).

Aeroplane School (Central Training Establishment) RNAS using both aerodromes 4.1916 – 4.1918 : Kite Balloon Training Depot and Free Balloon Training Depot RNAS/RAF (using North aerodrome)4.1916 – 1919 : Class G Airship Training Station RNAS/RAF 3.1916 – 1919 (using North aerodrome) : Boys Training Wing, Physical Training School and Boy Apprentices School RNAS/RAF (using South aerodrome) 1916 – continued in service : TDS and ARD RAF 4.1918 – 3.1919. RAF (Cadet) College 23.12.1919 – continued in service : Listed as unavailable for civilian use 22.1.1920.

CROMER

126/133 : (63) TG 2—4-- : Norfolk.

Proposed airship station RNAS. Acquisition of land and construction of an airship shed was sanctioned in 12.1913. Only half the cost of the shed was provided in fiscal year 1914 – 1915. As late as 6.1915, the Admiralty was endeavouring to ascertain the situation at Cromer. Nothing was heard and the planned station was apparently abandoned.

EAST FORTUNE East Fortune railway station adjoined the site

63/66 : (36) NT 550785 : East Lothian (Lothian), Scotland : 1330 acres : 4000 x 2700 yards : 100 feet amsl.

HD Flight Station RNAS 1916 : Class G Airship Station (with sub-station at Chathill) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 23.8.1916 – 1920 : Airship Station for rigid airships RNAS 10.1917 – 1920 : Fleet Aeroplane Base RNAS/RAF 11.1916 – 1918 : Flying School and Training Depot Station RAF 6.1918 – 1920 : Relinquishment confirmed 18.3.1920.

FARNBOROUGH 2 miles from Farnborough railway station

169/186 : (41) SU 865542 : Hampshire : 286 acres : 220 feet amsl.

Balloon Factory RE 1905 – 9112 : Royal Aircraft factory 5.1912 – 4.1918 : Training Squadron Station, HD Station, School, Depot, Aircraft Park, Record Office, ARD & ERD RFC/RAF 5.1912 – continued in service : Royal Aircraft Establishment 4.1918 – 3.1994 : Listed as unavailable for civilian use 22.1.1920.

FLOOKBURGH

88/96 : (34) SD 374745 : Lancashire (Cumbria).

Airship Construction Station under construction for Vickers Ltd and to replace Walney Island which was considered vulnerable to U-boat attack. Work was abandoned 9.1917 due to steel shortages and cost – expenditure to date was £ 800000.

GODMERSHAM PARK

172/179 : (61) TR 049504 : Kent.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Capel-le-Ferne) RNAS/RAF 1918 – 28.2.1919.

HOWDEN 1½ miles from Howden railway station

97/105 : (44) SE 750328 : Yorkshire, East Riding (Humberside) : 1240 acres : 3100 x 2600 yards : 18 feet amsl.

HD NLG for 33 (HD) Sqn RFC 1916 : Class G Airship Station (with sub-stations at Lowthorpe and Kirkleatham) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 3.1916 – 1919 : Airship Station for rigid airships RNAS/RAF 12.1916 – 9.1921 : Listed as unavailable for civilian use 22.1.1920.

INCHINNAN 6 miles from Glasgow railway station and 1 mile from Honston railway station

60/64 : (26) NS 476682 : Renfrewshire (Strathclyde), Scotland : 413 acres : 1830 x 1400 yards.

Manufacturer’s aerodrome for Wm Beardmore & Co Ltd, ex Dalmuir, 1916 – 1919 : Manufacturer’s Airship Station for rigid airhip construction by Wm Beardmore & Co Ltd : AAP RFC/RAF 1917 – 1918 (replaced by Renfrew). Relinquished 5.1920.

KILLARNEY

52º04’00”N 09º30’00”W : County Kerry, Ireland.

Proposed Airship Station RNAS (no evidence of construction).

KILLEAGH 1½ miles from Killeagh railway station

51º55’52”N 07º56’30”W : County Cork, Ireland : 361 acres : 2000 x 1040 yards.

Class G Airship Station under construction but not completed for rigid and non-rigid airships RAF 1918 – 1919 and held until 1921.

KINGNORTH (Hoo/Chatham) Beluncle railway halt adjacent to the site

172/178 ; (51) TQ 800727 : Isle of Grain, Kent : 570 acres : 2566 x 1700 yards.

Class G Airship Station for the construction and assembly of non-rigid airships RNAS 3.1914 – 1920 : Relinquishment confirmed 25.8.1921.

KIRKLEATHAM (Redcar)

86/94 : (45) NZ 590220 : Yorkshire, North Riding (Cleveland/Borough of Redcar & Cleveland)

Mooring out station (sub-station to Howden) for non-rigid airships RAF 4.6.1918 – 1919

LAIRA

187/201 : (20) SX 510550 : Devonshire.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Mullion) for non-rigid airships RAF 5.1918 – 1919 after initial RNAS mooring experiments there 3.1918.

LARNE (White Head)

5446’00”N 0543’35”W : County Antrim, Ireland.

Class A Airship Station (sub-station to Luce Bay) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 1917 – 1919 : Relinquishment notified 20.2.1920.

LONGSIDE (Peterhead/Lenabo) 4 miles from Longside railway station

31/30 : (48) NK 030421 : Aberdeenshire (Grampian), Scotland : 950 acres : 2730 x 2330 yards : 200 feet amsl.

Class G Airship Station (with sub-station at Auldbar) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 3.1916 – 1919 : Temporary Marine Operations Station RAF 11.1918 – 12.1918 : Relinquishment confirmed 10.3.1921.

LOUGH NEAGH

54º34’28”N 06º16’15”W : County Antrim, Ireland.

Proposed RNAS airship station 1916 but never built.

LOWTHORPE

99/101 : (54) TA 070610 : Yorkshire, East Riding (Humberside).

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Howden) for non-rigid airships RAF 6.5.1918 – 1919.

LUCE BAY 5 miles from Stranraer Harbour railway station

79/82 : (25) NX 120550 : Wigtownshire (Dumfries & Galloway), Scotland : 444 acres : 2270 x 1530 yards : 41 feet amsl.

Class B Airship Station (sub-stations at Ballyliffan, Larne, Machrihanish and Ramsey) for non-rigid airships RNAS 15.7.1915 – 5.1919 : Marine Operations Station RAF 6.1918 – 3.1919.

MALAHIDE

53º26’40”N 06º09’00”W : County Dublin, Ireland.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Anglesey) for non-rigid airships RAF 5.1918 – 1919.

MORETON (Dorchester) 1mile from Moreton railway station

178/194 : (30) SY 764895 : Dorsetshire : 355 acres : 1930 x 1330 yards : 170 feet amsl.

Airship Station RAF for non-rigid airships, under construction 1918 but not completed.

MULLION 5 miles from Helston railway station

190/203 : (10) SW 705210 : Cornwall : 320 acres : 1933 x 1100 yards : 304 feet amsl.

Class F Airship Station (with sub-stations at Bude, Laira, Toller and Tresco) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 6.1916 – 1919 : Marine Operations Station RNAS 4.1917 – 8.1917 : Marine Operations Station RNAS/RAF 12.1917 – 5.1919

PEMBROKE 5 miles from Tenby railway station and 4½ miles from Pembroke Dock railway station

151/157 : (22) SN 054030 : Pembrokeshire (Dyfed), Wales : 272 acres : 1700 x 1100 yards : 83 feet amsl.

Class C Airship Station (with sub-station at Wexford) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 1.1916 – 1,1919 : Marine Operations Station RAF 5.1918 – 1.1919 : Relinquishment confirmed 18.3.1920.

POLEGATE 1 mile from Polegate railway station

183/199 : (51) TQ 581035 : Sussex : 142 acres : 970 x 830 yards.

Class C Airship Station (with sub-stations at Slindon and Upton) for non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 6.7.1915 – 1919.

PULHAM ST MARY ¾ mile from Pulham St Mary railway station

137/156 : (62) TM 194836 : Norfolk : 920 acres : 2600 x 2330 yards..

Class G Airship Station for non-rigid airships on Marine Operations RNAS/RAF 2.1916 – 1918 : Airship Experimental Station for rigid airships RNAS/RAF 2.1918 – continued in service.

RAMSEY

87/95 : (24) SC 417962A : Isle of Man.

Airship moorings (sub-station to Luce Bay) for non-rigid airships RAF 1918.

SLINDON

181/197 : (41) SU 952104 : Sussex.

Airship moorings (sub-station to Polegate) RAF 1918 – 1919.

TOLLER (Bridport)

177/193 : (30) SY 540980 : Dorsetshire.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Mullion) RAF 1918.

TRESCO (Abbey Wood) boat to Penzance railway station

189/203 : (00) SV 895145 : Isles of Scilly.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Mullion) RAF 1918.

UPTON

179/195 : (30) SY 990930 : Dorsetshire.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Polegate) for non-rigid airships RAF 1918 – 1919.

WEXFORD (Johnstown Castle) 4½ miles from Wexford railway station

52º17’42”N 06º30’56”W : County Wexford, Ireland.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Pembroke) US Navy 1918.

WITTERSHAM

184/189 : (51) TQ 886281 : Kent.

Airship Moorings (sub-station to Capel-le-Ferne) RAF 1918 – 31.3.1919.

WORMWOOD SCRUBS (HMS President) ½ mile from Wormwood Scrubs railway station

160/176 : (51) TQ 225818 : Middlesex (London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham) : 30 acres : 666 x 286 yards.

Stores Depot RNAS 4.1915 – 10.1915 : Airship pilots school and depot for the construction of non-rigid airships RNAS/RAF 9.1915 – 1919 : Repair Depot (MT) 1918 – 1919 : Relinquishment confirmed 7.4.1921.

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From Mick Davis

'It's a bit long, but try this'

Mick many thanks for this you have answered many forth-coming questions for me!

One thing I did note, and being new to some of this I had forgotten to my shame, was that Ireland features. I had not considered this until now. So thanks for jogging my memory here.

I have just posted a picture inside one of the huts at Yatesbury c.1917 (postmark) (album), now I have heard by word of mouth that close to the airfield/airfields there was a bombing range, probably across the road. Has anyone any thoughts?

Best wishes

Bob

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I can’t come anywhere near the English Heritage figure. I can only find 41 sheds (42 if the coupled shed at Howden is counted as a pair). My figure includes portable sheds.

Anglesey (1)

1 shed, 302x69x50’

Barlow (1)

1 shed 700x150x100’

Barrow (Walney Island) (2)

1 shed 539x148x95’ plus one portable shed 300x45.52’

Bedford/Cardington (1)

1 shed 700x180x110’

Caldale (2)

1 shed 200x70’ plus 1 shed 150x45’

Capel (3)

1 shed 305’9”x39’4”x48’8” plus 1 shed 311’6”x44’2”x51’6” plus 1 shed 322’x70’x60’9”

Cramlington

1 shed under construction November 1918

Cranwell North (3)

1 rigid a/s shed 700x150’ plus one non-rigid shed 220x70’ plus another 151’9”x44’10”.

East Fortune (3)

1 rigid a/s shed 700x180x100’ plus 2 non-rigid sheds 320x120x80’

Farnborough (2)

The 2 original balloon factory sheds

Howden (4 or 5 if the coupled shed was counted as 2)

1 non rigid a/s shed 323x110’8”x80’2” plus one non rigid a/s shed 320x110x80’ plus one rigid a/s shed 703’10”x148’11”x100’8” plus one coupled rigid a/s shed 750’2”x300x130’

Inchinnan (1)

1 rigid a/s shed 700x153x100’

Kingsnorth (2)

Haven’t got the dimensions

Larne (1)

1 portable a/s shed

Longside (3)

1 rigis a/s shed 711’4”x150’6”x105’ plus 1 non-rigid a/s shed 322’9”x113’5”x80’ and another 322’10”x113’7”x79’10”.

Luce Bay (1)

1 non rigid a/s shed 302x70x50’

Moreton

Still under construction November 1918

Mullion (2)

1 non-rigid a/s shed 300x100x70’2” plus 1 portable a/s shed 220x70x70’

Pembroke (2)

1 non rigid a/s shed 301’9”x49’9”x70’5” plus 1 portable a/s shed 301’x45’7”x52’4”.

Polegate (2)

1 non-rigid a/s shed 323’x70’x59’9” plus another 316’7”x69’5”x50’2”

Pulham (3)

1 non-rigis a/s shed 222’11”x68’9”x69’9” plus 1 rigid a/s shed 711’4”x150’x100’6” and another 757’7”x179’9”x110’6”.

The largers of the rigid a/s sheds was dismantled post-war and re-erected at Bedford/Cardington

Wormwood Scrubbs (2)

1 a/s shed 354’x75’6”x98’ and another 300x45x55’

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I can’t come anywhere near the English Heritage figure. I can only find 41 sheds (42 if the coupled shed at Howden is counted as a pair). My figure includes portable sheds.

Thanks again Mick.

I would think there might be an element of 'proposed' sheds in the figure. A similar situation presents at St. Mary's, a proposed sub-station for Mullion. I get the impression that the Tresco site was to be superceeded by this but the wars end put paid to this. However this has not stopped St.Mary's being quoted as a sub-station in some work (Not EH Martyn).

Best wishes

Bob

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Just one more question on this subject.

Mick the list you provided notes 'Class B' etc. My understanding is that it stands for number of ships and compliment -

Class C =

5 SS types and 292 officers and men.

Is this true?

If it is does anyone know the other definitions?

Best wishes

Bob

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Ces Mowthorpe's book "Battlebags" lists 28 sites, of which 12 were "RNAS Airship Stations" and the rest "sub-stations/mooring-out sites".

Adrian

Battlebags is a great book and I found it very useful. I am now trying to discover any information about what a Hydrogen Worker would have done. My grandfather was at Kingsnorth and this was the description of his work, it was very well paid so presumably dangerous and/or with a fair bit of responsibility. Any suggestions as to where I could find out about this work?

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Just for the record, Longside is on the north east corner of Scotland, north of Aberdeen near Peterhead. It was also known as Lenabo. There are still a few remains around such as mooring blocks and concrete hut bases. The Station covered 1,000 acres at its peak.

Regards

Drover

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Welcome to the forum Tina,

There is a good description of hydrogen generation in Gordon Kinsey, Pulham Pigs; The History of an Air Station (Terence Dalton, Lavaneham, Suffolk, 1988) ISBN: 0-86138-050-9. It was very dangerous stuff to be around.

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Hi there,

I was brought up at Capel le ferne.

Behind the church hall in Albany Road is a concrete structure with a metal hoop in it.

Any ideas as to whether or not this was a balloon tethering point???

It is still there intact.

Best wishes

Alan

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Sir John Lavery made paintings of the air stations at East

Fortune. Pulham Wood and Wormwood Scubs as well as a wonderful painting of an airship over a convoy in the North Atlantic

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Lavery's Airship over a convoy:

post-9356-0-71709900-1386682635_thumb.jp

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Good Evening Bob

My wifes Grandad wasin the Royal Naval Air Service.He was stationed at the Royal Naval Airship Station

at a place called Longside.We have a photograph of the unit taken on the 17th January 1919.I dont know

where Longside is so you will have to look that one up.

Best Regards.

Andy

Hello. My Grandfather was also on Airships in the RNAS from 1917 to it being part of the RAF in 1918. I believe, from Peter Lewry's information, that he was also based at Longside in Scotland. My Grandfather left after the war as he had to return home to Hull to run the family business, but there is a story that there was a reunion or final flight of his group after the war in his old airship (possibly). He was disappointed not to be able to attend because his Father wouldn't give him the day off, but, as the story goes, the airship caught fire and his friends died. Is there any chance I could have a copy of your photograph please? As it was taken in January 1919 there is a possibility my Grandfather could be on it - and if he isn't, it may show some of the friends he flew with. Many thanks. His name was Frank Lazenby and he was from Hull.

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Hello, I would like to raise a question regarding that image that wig posted of the airship N.S.7 - painted on the life ring on the ship's side. I'm not certain that it was one of Sir John Lavery's works, it is likely to have been Algernon Black's. During the war he was based at the RNAS station at East Fortune for a couple of weeks, where N.S.7 was stationed and Black painted several images of airship patrols; almost all of them contain N.S.7. If it is Lavery, I stand corrected, but I have seen that particular painting credited to black in the past and it stands up considering the N.S.7 link.

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Nu

Hello, I would like to raise a question regarding that image that wig posted of the airship N.S.7 - painted on the life ring on the ship's side. I'm not certain that it was one of Sir John Lavery's works, it is likely to have been Algernon Black's. During the war he was based at the RNAS station at East Fortune for a couple of weeks, where N.S.7 was stationed and Black painted several images of airship patrols; almost all of them contain N.S.7. If it is Lavery, I stand corrected, but I have seen that particular painting credited to black in the past and it stands up considering the N.S.7 link.

The painting was attributed to Lavery in an exhibition during the 2013 or possibly 2012 Edinburgh Festival. It was part of a collection of his paintings in the Scottish National Gallery. I wrote it up here; http://broadsidesdotme.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/scottish-portrait-gallery-edinburgh-and-laverys-war-paintings/

Following your contribution I went back to my books and I note from Lavery's biography (The Life of a Painter) that he refers to his experiences "escorting convoys in the North Sea and painting from "blimps" or numbered N.S.'s" He certainly dose not identify N.S. 7 but I think it is fairly good evidence that the painting is his.

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I was wondering what a portable shed would look like. I have photographs of Mullion RNAS Station which were obtained in St.Catharines, Ontario 15-20 years ago. I would think the sheds at Mullion would both have been very permanent. I am a luddite & have not the ability to post any images at this time but just for your information I have about 100 photographs my mother retrieved from a wastebasket.

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