Remembered Today:

Jacksmum

Harlebeke New British Cemetery, Belgium

148 posts in this topic

in the cemetery, is the first Australian killed in the Ypres Salient. William Thomas Leggett was born in Goulburn, NSW.

he left Australia to join and gain more experience as a wireless telegraphist, on an ocean liner, going to south Africa and American before disembarking at Southampton. he joined the life guards in January 1912. after square basing, he became an instructor. he was shipped out at the start of hostilities to belguim he was killed near gheluwe. and was buried with some German soldiers. he was reinterred at Harlebeke new british cemetery, after the Armistice because he was in the Life Guards possibly there is no mention of him being Australian. otherwise it would possibly be high on any Australians itenary.

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Was at this cemetery about a month ago I saw this grave,

T J Readman why does he not have a regiment badge?

ny7c5g.jpg

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Strange one that Danny,

He doesn't seem to appear on Soldiers Died or on CWGC either.

Must have been a civilian? but he should still be on CWGC.

I am intrigued as well, perhaps you should start a separate post for this?

BillyH.

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I have the cemetery register at home, will check this evening.

Lars

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Hello Lars,

I looked in my 1928 and 1988 edidion and was not able to find it. Which edition do you have?

Anyway I will ask it to Fhilip, maybe he can help.

jef

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Was at this cemetery about a month ago I saw this grave,

T J Readman why does he not have a regiment badge?

ny7c5g.jpg

Hello,

This is undoubtedly someone who died as a POW in one of the German hospitals. It would be interesting to have the names of the neighbouring graves to check the burial sheets (they may indicate from which German cemetery the man comes).

The Germans made mistakes (quite naturally, it happened the other way around just as well) when writing down the names of Allied casualties.

Strange that the CWGC did put the name there even though the name can't be matched to a casualty. (as I have a strong case to identify one unknown grave in Moorsele by matching the names to the German cemetery register from where the grave was taken, but they didn't accept my proof.)

Jan

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Well I feel like a fool.

I have lead you all down the garden path a little bit.

In my rush I got the name wrong.

He is buried in Hazebrouk.

I'm very sorry.

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Thanks - but still somewhat of a mystery as he did not show up on CWGC anyhow!

Perhaps a separate thread?

Lars

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Dannyboy,

Nothing to apologise for, the problem remained the same - but for no longer!

1095 T.J. Readman : 4th Civilian Railway Company : Buried Hazebrouck Communal Cemetery : Plot I.E.1

CWGC have him on their cemetery index, but they need to add him to their on-line database?

BillyH.

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Cemetery Index attached :

BillyH.

post-41657-0-58699600-1415655153_thumb.j

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I have reported this omission to CWGC.

I can't see why he isn't listed on the CWGC website - even though he was a civilian?

BillyH.

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(Ref. post # 127)


Just to update this one, I did contact CWGC last November and they have come back with the following reply today :



Thank you for your enquiry of 11 November 2014 regarding T J Readman. Let me apologise for the delay in our response to your enquiry. Due to the commencement of the 1914-18 Centenary commemorative period, we have experienced a sharp increase in the number of enquiries received. Regrettably, as we are a small team, this has resulted in a backlog and I therefore apologise for the delay in my reply.


I would explain that our duties are confined to commemorating the dead of the two world wars, and, as T J Readman was a civilian who did not die as a result of enemy action (e.g. illness, accident, natural causes), his grave is not a world war grave. However, we do maintain his grave on behalf of the Ministry of Defence and hold the following information on him:


Casualty Details


Rank: Civilian


Surname: READMAN


Initials: T J


Service No: 1095


Unit: 4th Civilian Railway Coy.


Regiment: Civilian


Secondary Unit: attd.


Secondary Regiment: Royal Engineers


Date of Death: 2 April 1917



BillyH.


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Hopefully some of the original posters are still following this thread. John William Stidolph was moved to Harlebeke New British Cemetery from Klephoek German Military Cemetery. Can anyone tell me where Klephoek Cemetery was?

Mandy

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Hopefully some of the original posters are still following this thread. John William Stidolph was moved to Harlebeke New British Cemetery from Klephoek German Military Cemetery. Can anyone tell me where Klephoek Cemetery was?

Mandy

Dadizele, it was started late 1914 as Reserve-Sanitäts-Kompagnie 54 had its Hauptverbandplatz closeby. It was used until around September 1917, when Dadizele was under heavy artillery fire. Soldiers were buried in Moorsele afterwards.

Jan

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Thanks for the reply Jan. Sorry to ask another question, but do you know exactly where in Dadizele? I will probably be in Begium next week and would like to visit the original burial place and Harlebeke.

Mandy

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Thanks again Jan.

Mandy

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I am sorry to say I need just a little help...J.Carl has sent me a PM but the link to reply does not work...I cannot find him/her on the Members list...Can anyone tell me how to get in touch please? Many thanks.

Jacksmum

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Don't worry, I have found a way...

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Just back from Belgium and visted Harelbeke during holiday to visit/pay respects to my great Uncle, Harold Hague - private in King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. Harold was from Moorends near Doncaster. One of 3 brothers to serve in WW1. Other 2 brothers were casulties (One at Battle of Somme) but survived their injuries.

Harold was injured and captured on 8th May 1915 (Battle of Frezenburg, 2nd Battle of Ypres). He was taken prisoner and died of injuries  at German hospital in Izegem 9th June although German records show he died May 14th (maybe June date was record of when British authorities were informed of his death?) Buried by Germans and then moved to Harelbeke.

Harold was reported as missing initially, until his death was confirmed by German government via American Embassy a month later, along with another soldier from same village - Walter Tom Belton. Walter was never found and I managed to locate his name on Menin Gate, so was pleased to link the two back together after 101 years.

I'm the first family member to visit Harold, and did this whilst riding my bike from our Bruges holiday base last Saturday. Two days later he had another visit when I took my wife and sons in the car!

RIP all at Harelbeke 

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Posted 17 Jan 2009 by kingjimmy5

Herbert Smart was born 20th September 1878 in Kingsthorpe Northamptonshire.He was the son of Samuel Smart a shoe riveter and Alice Poole .Herbert was married to Mary Ann Martin on the 5th October 1908 at Primrose Hill Congregational Church Northampton. Over the next six years they produced four children Mabel , Minnie, Frederick and Herbert. .He had various building trade jobs as he grew up but on enlisting he was a scaffolder,a job what he was described as being very good at. Herbert was 37 years 11 months old and only 5 feet 2 ¾ inches tall on volunteering for active duty at Northampton . He joined 1/3 East Anglian Royal Engineers on the 23rd August 1915 . On the 1 August 1916 whilst training as a sapper at Killinghall camp near Harrogate, he was caught out of bounds ,trespassing on Pot Bridge Farm. His punishment being 2 days confined to barracks.

Via the 9th Cheshire regiment Herbert was subsequently transferred to the 16th Cheshire Regiment , which was a Bantam regiment consisting of men who would not normally meet the height requirement of the British army. Private Herbert Smart Service No: 58002 was ordered to France in September 1916. On 30 December 1916 he travelled from Southampton to Rouen joining the BEF

 At some point around this point he sent Pollie ( the family name for his wife ) a postcard  which he says "Dear Pollie We are to set sail in Febuary for the front either france or Bulgara" He was posted with the 16th Cheshire Regiment on the 13 January 1917. Soon after this he was again in trouble ,“whilst on active service conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in that he in the field on or about 4-2-17 signed on a green envelope AFW3078 the certificate that the contents of the said envelope referred to nothing but private and family matters well knowing that the contents of the said envelope was not as described in the said certificate. Herbert was tried on the 3rd November He was found guilty and sentenced to 60 days field punishment confirmed by Brig General Marindin commanding 105 infantry brigade who directed that 39 days of the sentence be remitted.

According to National roll of the Great War 1914-1918 Herbert fought and survived the Battle of Arras but on the 22 October 1917 he was injured ,sustaining gunshot wounds to his legs . On this date the 16th Cheshire’s were involved in a diversionary attack east of Poelcapelle and the ground south of Houlthulst Forest. Herbert arrived back in Blighty on the 3rd November 1917 probably to recover from his wounds. On the 26th of April 1918 he was fitted with partial  upper and lower dentures.

Time at “Home” ended on the 23rd of May 1918 when he travelled back to France. It is believed that at this time he sent his daughter a postcard on which was written"Dear Mabel Just a line to let you know that your dad is going over the water again xxxxxxx" ( the kisses are smudged  and it makes you wonder whether this is from the tears of the sender or recipient)

Again via the 9th (service ) Battalion he proceeded to the 15th Cheshire battalion on the 1st of June 1918 joining them in the field on the 5th of June 1918. This is around the time when tide of war was turning in favour of the Allies and whilst holding positions in the St. Jan Cappel sector the Cheshires were able to see the Germans torching buildings as they retreated. Throughout September the Battalion rotated in and out of the trenches between Western edge of Zillebeke lake and the canel at the intersection of the Ypres- Lille road. They were also involved in an attack where they were to capture the line between Tenbreiken Village to Blagnaert Farm which was conducted in heavy mist and rainfall. Despite heavy losses due to heavy bombardments of explosive and gas shells and machine gun fire their objective was finally reached. This was the end of trench warfare for the Cheshires and they now were chasing the enemy across open land

The Cheshire Battalion crossed the River Lys just before midnight on the 19th of October ,halting briefly near the tile works in Marckbeeke. Several hours later they moved to the village of Pottleberg, south of Courtrai The brigade launched an attack on objectives to the South east of Courtrai. They managed to capture the village of Berkstraatand and a neighbouring ridge. The battalion then encountered heavy machine gun fire but pushed forward crossing the River Keibeek finally reaching their first objective . The days fighting cost the battalion fifty casualties including seven dead ,one of these being Herbert Smart. He was buried in the vicinity of Courtrai but his body was later exhumed and re-interred in Harlebeke New British Cemetery North east of Courtrai Plot 7,Row “d” grave 12.

The full war diary record for the Cheshires on the 20th  reads

Beekstraat

At 0445 hours the Batt'n moved to its assembly positions which ran N.E. from N.3 central. Zero hour was at 0615 hours. Assembly was completed without incident,the 104th.infantry B'de being at the right of the Batt'n & the 15th. Sherwood Foresters on the left.The line N.10.b.6.5 - N .5.a.9.4. was to be reached by 0700 hours. The first objective of the Battn was 0.32.b.4.8 to chapel at 0.27.b.7.0. The 700 hours line was reached without incident & the ridge N.W of BEEKSTRAAT was captured, but on decending the forward slopes running down to the KEIBEEK RIVER & the Batt'n met with very heavy machine gun fire from the ridge & farms in 0.12.d.0.7 and 0.18. The remainder of the Bde was also held up, the 15th Sherwood Foresters suffering badly at SWEVEGHEM, whilst the 4th. North Staffords were stopped at BOKKEN . This was about 0815 hours & the Battn was subjected to this heavy machine gun fire coupled with shelling up to close on 1500 hours.At that hour some slackening of the machine gun & shell fire was noticeable .& the 19th. D.L.I on our right flank got forward alittle so our front Coy's pushed out patrols & crossed the KEIBEEK establishing posts & making gradual progress until dark in the face of machine gun fire although not so fierce a nature as earlier in the day. The gradual progress was continued until after dark & ultimately reached the first objective. The D.L.I. lost direction & came across our front from the right. The 106th Infantry B'de attacked through the final objective about dusk,& we occupied our first objective & adjusted the line with the D.L.I . A nasty wet drizzle had continued throughout the day & night & the men were suffering very much from exhaustion & exposure but as usual, they overcame these and did wonderfully well. Total casualties for the day were about 50. Of theOfficers,2nd Lieut. J.S.Brown was killed. & 2nd .Lieut . S.Whitney, DCM , wounded by gas shell.

Ref map sheet 29 N.W.

 "Whilst we remember, the sacrifice is not in vain"Posted 17 Jan 2009 by kingjimmy5

Herbert Smart was born 20th September 1878 in Kingsthorpe Northamptonshire.He was the son of Samuel Smart a shoe riveter and Alice Poole .Herbert was married to Mary Ann Martin on the 5th October 1908 at Primrose Hill Congregational Church Northampton. Over the next six years they produced four children Mabel , Minnie, Frederick and Herbert. .He had various building trade jobs as he grew up but on enlisting he was a scaffolder,a job what he was described as being very good at. Herbert was 37 years 11 months old and only 5 feet 2 ¾ inches tall on volunteering for active duty at Northampton . He joined 1/3 East Anglian Royal Engineers on the 23rd August 1915 . On the 1 August 1916 whilst training as a sapper at Killinghall camp near Harrogate, he was caught out of bounds ,trespassing on Pot Bridge Farm. His punishment being 2 days confined to barracks.

Via the 9th Cheshire regiment Herbert was subsequently transferred to the 16th Cheshire Regiment , which was a Bantam regiment consisting of men who would not normally meet the height requirement of the British army. Private Herbert Smart Service No: 58002 was ordered to France in September 1916. On 30 December 1916 he travelled from Southampton to Rouen joining the BEF

 At some point around this point he sent Pollie ( the family name for his wife ) a postcard  which he says "Dear Pollie We are to set sail in Febuary for the front either france or Bulgara" He was posted with the 16th Cheshire Regiment on the 13 January 1917. Soon after this he was again in trouble ,“whilst on active service conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in that he in the field on or about 4-2-17 signed on a green envelope AFW3078 the certificate that the contents of the said envelope referred to nothing but private and family matters well knowing that the contents of the said envelope was not as described in the said certificate. Herbert was tried on the 3rd November He was found guilty and sentenced to 60 days field punishment confirmed by Brig General Marindin commanding 105 infantry brigade who directed that 39 days of the sentence be remitted.

According to National roll of the Great War 1914-1918 Herbert fought and survived the Battle of Arras but on the 22 October 1917 he was injured ,sustaining gunshot wounds to his legs . On this date the 16th Cheshire’s were involved in a diversionary attack east of Poelcapelle and the ground south of Houlthulst Forest. Herbert arrived back in Blighty on the 3rd November 1917 probably to recover from his wounds. On the 26th of April 1918 he was fitted with partial  upper and lower dentures.

Time at “Home” ended on the 23rd of May 1918 when he travelled back to France. It is believed that at this time he sent his daughter a postcard on which was written"Dear Mabel Just a line to let you know that your dad is going over the water again xxxxxxx" ( the kisses are smudged  and it makes you wonder whether this is from the tears of the sender or recipient)

Again via the 9th (service ) Battalion he proceeded to the 15th Cheshire battalion on the 1st of June 1918 joining them in the field on the 5th of June 1918. This is around the time when tide of war was turning in favour of the Allies and whilst holding positions in the St. Jan Cappel sector the Cheshires were able to see the Germans torching buildings as they retreated. Throughout September the Battalion rotated in and out of the trenches between Western edge of Zillebeke lake and the canel at the intersection of the Ypres- Lille road. They were also involved in an attack where they were to capture the line between Tenbreiken Village to Blagnaert Farm which was conducted in heavy mist and rainfall. Despite heavy losses due to heavy bombardments of explosive and gas shells and machine gun fire their objective was finally reached. This was the end of trench warfare for the Cheshires and they now were chasing the enemy across open land

The Cheshire Battalion crossed the River Lys just before midnight on the 19th of October ,halting briefly near the tile works in Marckbeeke. Several hours later they moved to the village of Pottleberg, south of Courtrai The brigade launched an attack on objectives to the South east of Courtrai. They managed to capture the village of Berkstraatand and a neighbouring ridge. The battalion then encountered heavy machine gun fire but pushed forward crossing the River Keibeek finally reaching their first objective . The days fighting cost the battalion fifty casualties including seven dead ,one of these being Herbert Smart. He was buried in the vicinity of Courtrai but his body was later exhumed and re-interred in Harlebeke New British Cemetery North east of Courtrai Plot 7,Row “d” grave 12.

The full war diary record for the Cheshires on the 20th  reads

Beekstraat

At 0445 hours the Batt'n moved to its assembly positions which ran N.E. from N.3 central. Zero hour was at 0615 hours. Assembly was completed without incident,the 104th.infantry B'de being at the right of the Batt'n & the 15th. Sherwood Foresters on the left.The line N.10.b.6.5 - N .5.a.9.4. was to be reached by 0700 hours. The first objective of the Battn was 0.32.b.4.8 to chapel at 0.27.b.7.0. The 700 hours line was reached without incident & the ridge N.W of BEEKSTRAAT was captured, but on decending the forward slopes running down to the KEIBEEK RIVER & the Batt'n met with very heavy machine gun fire from the ridge & farms in 0.12.d.0.7 and 0.18. The remainder of the Bde was also held up, the 15th Sherwood Foresters suffering badly at SWEVEGHEM, whilst the 4th. North Staffords were stopped at BOKKEN . This was about 0815 hours & the Battn was subjected to this heavy machine gun fire coupled with shelling up to close on 1500 hours.At that hour some slackening of the machine gun & shell fire was noticeable .& the 19th. D.L.I on our right flank got forward alittle so our front Coy's pushed out patrols & crossed the KEIBEEK establishing posts & making gradual progress until dark in the face of machine gun fire although not so fierce a nature as earlier in the day. The gradual progress was continued until after dark & ultimately reached the first objective. The D.L.I. lost direction & came across our front from the right. The 106th Infantry B'de attacked through the final objective about dusk,& we occupied our first objective & adjusted the line with the D.L.I . A nasty wet drizzle had continued throughout the day & night & the men were suffering very much from exhaustion & exposure but as usual, they overcame these and did wonderfully well. Total casualties for the day were about 50. Of theOfficers,2nd Lieut. J.S.Brown was killed. & 2nd .Lieut . S.Whitney, DCM , wounded by gas shell.

Ref map sheet 29 N.W.

 "Whilst we remember, the sacrifice is not in vain"

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df0c9361-47c3-4b56-acca-3ca39667a9a8.jpg

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I made the pilgrimage to Harlebeke in 2015 with my family to visit the grave of my great uncle, Private 38639 William Smith MM of 9th Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), who died aged 20, on 20th October 1918 as part of actions in that area with the 9th Scottish Division. He lies along with many others from that Division and that date, but stands out having been awarded the Military Medal for 'bravery and signal service'. According to Battalion war diaries, they were billeted south east of Deerlyck and pontoons were eventually laid for them to cross the River Lys. I'm aware that Harlebeke was taken by the 9th Scottish Division 19-20th October 1918, but know little more. Sadly the Battalion diaries also state that the civilian population had been very badly treated by the Germans, and that on the 20th, there was heavy shelling and machine guns very active. It states that 8 from the 9th Cameronians were killed that day, with 26 wounded. Sadly, I'm sure more died from their wounds. William was the second son of John and Janet Smith from Glasgow. They had lost their eldest son, James, in 1915 at La Bassee with 1st Scots Guards. The boys brother, my grandfather Hugh, was too young to go to war, along with another 2 younger brothers and baby sister. I was very proud to have visited William's grave, and also the memorial to James at La Touret, France. I also played a lament on my bagpipes at Harlebeke and during the ceremony at the Menin Gate, Ypres. Frustratingly I know so little about William and his comrades actions in the field. I would be keen to know more - and also plan to return to Harlebeke over 19-20th October 2018, to commemorate the centenary. If anyone knows any local contacts, please let me know, as I'd love to make it more than just me and my bagpipes - I think the 9th Scottish Division, and all the other brave souls that rest there, deserve to have a poignant memorial for their sacrifice. Feel free to join me, and I might even buy you a whisky or three!! 

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If your're still looking:  Hedley Saunders Griffin (grve XII.D.2) is remembered on the Newbury War Memorial, his school memorial and also on his parents' grave. He was also commemorated in the local Primitive Methodist Chapel - which was demolished in the early 60s.

 

His father performed the unveiling of the town memorial in his role as mayor. 

 

http://westberkshirewarmemorials.org.uk/texts/stories/WBP00883S.php

 

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