40 replies to this topic

[Goosegirdle]

I am researching an intruiging young French civilian woman well known to Australian soldiers on the Western Front as 'Incinerator Kate'.

There are at least three diaries / books by AIF men with passages regarding this young lady. Kate resided in the vicinity of an incinerator, probably at Ribemont Camp or in either of the nearby villages of Buire or Ribemont, hence her nickname.

'Kate' was reported to have had an intellectual disability in today's terms. She had the ability to almost suddenly appear on street corners and smartly salute passing troops and sporting a wide grin. She also collected discarded junk, which she stored near her incinerator and was often observed fighting with another woman over treasures. There are two accounts that I am aware of these fights having amused the diggers, who barracked for one or the other.

Kate was variously described. In some cases as fat, certainly with dishevelled dark hair and almost absent regard for personal hygiene. It is also possible that some of the diggers took advantage of her simple nature, although I have no corroboration of that. She was about 18 - 19 years old.

I would like to discover her real name / history and whether she is mentioned by any UK soldiers in books or diaries.

I would also like to pinpoint the location of her incinerator.


Thanks!

[ph0ebus]

Goosegirdle, on 21 February 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

I am researching an intruiging young French civilian woman well known to Australian soldiers on the Western Front as 'Incinerator Kate'.

There are at least three diaries / books by AIF men with passages regarding this young lady. Kate resided in the vicinity of an incinerator, probably at Ribemont Camp or in either of the nearby villages of Buire or Ribemont, hence her nickname.

'Kate' was reported to have had an intellectual disability in today's terms. She had the ability to almost suddenly appear on street corners and smartly salute passing troops and sporting a wide grin. She also collected discarded junk, which she stored near her incinerator and was often observed fighting with another woman over treasures. There are two accounts that I am aware of these fights having amused the diggers, who barracked for one or the other.

Kate was variously described. In some cases as fat, certainly with dishevelled dark hair and almost absent regard for personal hygiene. It is also possible that some of the diggers took advantage of her simple nature, although I have no corroboration of that. She was about 18 - 19 years old.

I would like to discover her real name / history and whether she is mentioned by any UK soldiers in books or diaries.

I would also like to pinpoint the location of her incinerator.


Thanks!

Hello,

What an interesting story!  I am assuming one of the sources you mention is "Over the Top: A Digger's Story of the Western Front" By H.G. Hartnett.

I see a listing via Google books called 'The Leatherneck (Vol 11)' that gives some details, and a name: Katherine Janton...I can only see snippets of this book so I am not sure it is the same woman.

I'll poke around a bit and see if there's more to be found.

-Daniel

[keithgr]

This looks to be a very interesting human story. I  hope there will be some answers to this. I look forward with interest to hearing about this young lady.

Keith

[Goosegirdle]

Daniel,

Thanks for the name and reference, that is a start.

Yes, she is mentioned in HG Hartnett's book, "Over the Top: A Digger's Story of the Western Front". Here is the relevant passage from page 122;

"During our stay in Ribemont we saw a good deal of a character well remembered by troops billeted there from time to time during the war. She was probably between 18 and 21 years of age, appeared to be half-witted, carried a perpetual grin on her face and appeared here, there and everywhere. Her pace was always a run or trot, and each day as the companies marched through the village to the parade ground near Buire-sur-1'Ancre, she appeared as if by magic on every street corner, giving us a smart salute as we passed. One of her favourite haunts was the village incinerator where all the accumulated rubbish was burned. This habit, combined with her dishevelled appearance, wildly flowing hair and her all too apparent need of a hot bath, led to her being universally known as `Incinerator Kate'. Months later, when we marched through Ribemont for the last time she was still running from one street corner to another, as dirty and dishevelled as ever, with the same broad, inane grin on her face from ear to ear, wildly saluting every soldier she saw".

She is also mentioned in Lawriwsky's book about Bert Jacka. I assume he has recounted stories from Edgar Rule's or Wanliss' books about the 14thBattalion.

I have also read an unpublished account by a 3rd Battalion soldier in his memoirs; In November 1916, Leonard Jones was in camp at Buire. He mentioned haveing witnessed Kate "fishing out all sorts of material". She had an argument with another lady which escalated into them throwing rubbish at each other. The boys were barracking for each woman.


Phil

[ph0ebus]

There is another book, 'No Ordinary Determination. Percy Black and Harry Murray of the First AIF' that contains some references to Incinerator Kate (pp. 136-137).

I might have access to The Leatherneck via the New York Public Library...if you cannot locate a copy let me know.

Daniel

[moggs]

Incinerator Kate is mentioned on Wanliss (P.182) with two lines on her character.



In Jacka's Mob (P.83 of the third edition) she is very well described.

"In this village (RIbemont) there lived a queer old soul who answered to the name of Incinerator Kate.  She derived this name from the fact that she was constantly in attendance at the camp incinerator, accompanied by a wheelbarrow; she was seldom without the wheelbarrow.  Her wearing apparel consisted of a shawl pulled down tightly over her head and tied under her chin; a jacket, also fitting tightly and held in position at the waist by a piece of string; and a skirt which jutted out like that of a ballet mistress.  As she waddled along in her wooden clogs, pushing her barrow before, this canopy of cloth wobbled about, up and down and every way, in time with her movements.  Naturally, she came in for a lot of banter from the boys, but she could always hold her won when it came to back chat.  On this particular afternoon (a sports day) several of us were standing yarning with Bert Jacka when we saw the crowd split in two, and Incinerator Kate come flying through it.  On her heels came another woman dressed in a similar manner.  The only difference was that the woman in front trundled a wheelbarrow, and the woman behind carried a piece of firewood.  Faster and faster went the wheelbarrow, but the firewood gained steadily on it.  Who was who, we could not guess, until the driver of the barrow suddenly tripped and went headlong, clothes well up to the waist, revealing a pair of khaki breeches.  Then the billet of wood came into its own."  Edgar Rule



In a less well known book, "Playing Your Part - the diary of William Devereaux, D Coy 14th Battalion AIF" (P. 75) she is described as…

"She was a little old woman half dotty, very stout, old clothes falling off her, a face as ugly and red as a turkey cock, about five inches of hair which she always tied in a ball on the top of her head.  Her boots were old ones worn by the soldiers at one time or another.  She made her living poking around the soldiers camps collecting old socks, bottles etc.  She alway attended the sports and football matches we held.  It used to be great fun for someone to pretend to chase her.  She would tuck up her old skirt around her knees and run for her life.  She used to wave to all the officers when they were marching past with the men."  William Devereaux


Jonathan

[Goosegirdle]

Jonathan,

You beat me to that, I had copied the relevent pages from Rule and Wanliss today.

Devereux's description is interesting, I hadn't seen that but it corresponds to that of Rule and adds further description.

Newton Wanliss writes in "The History of the 14th Battalion" at P182, that she , "was the village idiot, known as "incinerator Kate" (usually seen trundling a huge barrow), whose eccentricities were a perennial source of amusement to all".

Unlike Rule and Devereux, Wanliss was not there. Neither was Jeff Hatwell, the author of the book on Black and Murray.

It appears that the weight of description lies on the old and ugly side, not young and dishevelled. I suspect that the 14th Battalion men had more then their share of entertainment from Kate as they spent two periods resting at Ribemont. The Third Battalion, to which Jones belonged, only spent two nights there. Hartnett belonged to the 2nd Battalion, which may have had two short stays at Ribemont. It is possible that the Second and Third Battalion men mistakenly believed that a younger woman was the "Incinerator Kate" that they would have heard much about from other soldiers.

I will look for other references in my notes on the 3rd Battalion.


Daniel,


I would be very interested to read what is said about Kate in the book "Leathernecks", given the name of the book and where it is held, I suspect that she may have entertained US Marines later in the war. It is possible that the Marines learned more about her than the diggers did. Please take a look as you suggested.


Phil

[ph0ebus]

Goosegirdle, on 22 February 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Daniel,


I would be very interested to read what is said about Kate in the book "Leathernecks", given the name of the book and where it is held, I suspect that she may have entertained US Marines later in the war. It is possible that the Marines learned more about her than the diggers did. Please take a look as you suggested.


Phil

Phil,

Here's what little bits I can see online...I will check with the Library to confirm they have the specific issue you need.  She apparently has a whole section about her in this issue, titled "Incinerator Kate".  The print is tiny, so don't take this transcription, especially the dates and numbers, as gospel:

"Physical Routine Order No. 4
by Lieut-Col. ??? Slavin, D.S.O.M.C.C de G.
Commanding Umptil Battalion

Any soldier found soliciting, aiding, or abetting Katherine Janton (known as Incinerator Kate) in any of her nefarious practices shall be summarily dealt with by FGCM.  The CO regrets that the reputation of the Umpttl, second to none in France, Egypt, or Gallipoli, and sustained in honor on many a blood-soaked field before superior forces of the enemy, is in danger of" (snippet ends)

Also, on another page:

"Katherine Janton, known hereafter to the rank and file of 1st A.N.Z.A.C. as Incinerator Kate (which soubriquet requires no explanation) was then in her 50th (?) year.

No one believed that it was her beauty which held sway over men's hearts, for her face and figure revealed to the most casual observer the ravages of time and use, and no one believed it was her powers of speech either, although they were con-" (snippet ends)

-Daniel

[Siege Gunner]

Does anyone see the potential for a film about 'Incinerator Kate'?  Like 'Séraphine' (about Séraphine Louis aka Séraphine de Senlis), I think it would take a French director to make it work, though.

[David Filsell]

Did she have children? There's a girl just like works at the Merton Council recycling centre.

[Siege Gunner]

Garth Road, David?

[David Filsell]

That's the one. Have you met her? Large lady. Large attitude.
She got very stroppy when I asked what statute of law she was operating under when she demanded that I provide my driving license to get into the dump. (She had no right at all of course and eventually the people's Republic of Merton issued permits to get in). However I refused to move. She refused to let me in. The cars behind backed up. Finally she let me in. There were some big rough builders behind me and I'd locked the windows and reclined the seat and lit a tab. This happened four times. Finally she threatened to take me behind the bike shed. I though it an offer too good to accept. We moved to Kingston. Conservative council lower taxes and a nicer class of Dump Facilitation Operatives.
Sorry to hijack the thread, which is fascinating.
Regards
David .

[Roger H]

David Filsell, on 22 February 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

the thread, which is fascinating.
Regards
David .

It is, isn't it!  Incredible the information that can be gleaned.

Roger

[ph0ebus]

It ceartainly grabbed my attention, especially given that I help people like Kate for a living.

Daniel

[Goosegirdle]

Daniel,

That article appears to contain a great deal of information on Kate, I think we would all like to see a transcript of it.

I live near the Australian War Memorial and the Australian National Library, neither of which appear to have Leathernecks in their otherwise excellent collections.


Mick,

A film, intersting idea!


Phil

[Goosegirdle]

Daniel,

I found the listing in Google Books, it looks very interesting.

Phil

[ph0ebus]

Goosegirdle, on 22 February 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Daniel,

I found the listing in Google Books, it looks very interesting.

Phil

Hi Phil,

It may not be until mid-March that I can get to the library...if I can go sooner I will but at present that is what looks likely.  In the interim if you or others find more I look foward to additions to this thread.

Daniel

[Goosegirdle]

I just found this article from The Western Mail (Perth) 1 March 1934:

FAMOUS WOMEN.


Dear Non-Com,

Not being much of a writer or speller, I have hesitated to contribute to the page, but am now sending in a dinkum episode that happened in France. It was after Bullecourt in 1917, and a Digger from the Harfleur base camp was in an estaminet on the outskirts of Le Havre. With him were a French soldat and a British Tommy. The refreshment was flowing freely, and tall tales were being told of brave men and fearless. Suddenly the Frenchman protested: "Messieurs! We talk all about famous men! What about the Madam et Mademoiselle? Jeanne de Are was the bravest ot the brave."


That silenced his companions only temporarily. "Well." said Tommy, "I don't think she was. Nurse Cavell was a greater woman than Joan of Arc".  

The Digger had been thinking hard.There was no female Ned Kelly on whom, his imagination could rest at the moment, but he must put in some claim for the honour of the A.I.F. "They're two great and famous women," he said (then got a brain wave), "but Incinerator Kate of Ribemont licks 'em to a frazzle.-"Jinks," Manjimup.



Daniel,

I have found a source for the article in Sydney, but I also can't get it until mid March.

[Goosegirdle]

It seems the Western Mail Newspaper was keen to publish articles mentioning kate. Here are excerpts from another three articles in the same Newspaper;

"Ribemont is full of memories, mostly pleasant, and, though the grotesque form-of "Incinerator Kate" wanders occasionally through them, there were numerous little pastoral incidents that always keep green".
Unknown 11th Battalion soldier, 17 July 1937

"The most notable character in the village was known as "Incinerator Kate." At all times of the day she could be located at the incinerator salvaging old clothes, boots, etc., and usually was well supplied with bully beef and biscuits by the good natured Australians".
Captain C Longmore (16th Battalion, 29 July 1937)

"MENTION has been made of "Incinerator Kate," This was a poor half-wit that used to hang around the camps and billets. From her habit of collecting old garments and boots around the incinerater she gained her sobriquet. She was grotesque, uncouth figure with her stocky form clad in a digger tunic and her feet stuck into boots several sizes too large. She does not come into the story any more than that she was a part of the scenery that all the troops who were at Ribemont remember. She was a dingy figure, whose recollection only made the rest of the stay brighter by contrast".
Captain Walter C. Bedford (11th Battalion, 22 Sep 1938)

[frev]

Phil - some more for you on Kate:

The Fighting Thirteenth, TA White
Chapter XVIII – Christmas 1916
(p.83) Except on the main roads, kept clean by German prisoners, and the billets yards, looked after by the Diggers, Ribemont was a vile quaqmire, several huts standing in seas of knee-deep mud.  “Incinerator Kate”, the most untidy and unkempt young lady imaginable, collected whatever she could find anywhere about billets in her wheelbarrow, the incinerator being her special delight, for there she salvaged delightedly much about to be cast into the fire.  Her bare legs were generally shod in Digger boots about six sizes too large, and occasionally she wore an old Tommy tunic.  At a sports meeting later a 13th Digger appeared in fancy costume as “Incinerator Kate”, having “borrowed” her barrow when she wasn’t looking.  Very perturbed, she sought her vehicle everywhere before at last visiting the sports, where her arrival became the event of the day.  Disconsolately she bewailed her loss to Digger after Digger until she suddenly discovered “herself” and barrow across a field.  A wild scream, excited exclamations and a whirlwind rush brought her alongside her beloved barrow and the “Beaucoup Brigand.”  Imitator and Dinkum Kate then entered into a loud argument, Kate losing her voice with rage.  When she finally got her barrow she retired in hysterical indignation, and never after forgave the 4th Bde., although its members sent her 100 francs for the worry she had suffered.

Cheers, Frev

[Goosegirdle]

Thanks Frev,

It is an interesting story. I wonder if that incident was on the same sports day that she amused Bert Jacka.

The Fourth Brigade seems to have had a special affinity toward Kate. 13th, 14th and 16th Battalion memoirs seem to mention her regularly.
Phil

[frev]

Goosegirdle, on 23 February 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

I wonder if that incident was on the same sports day that she amused Bert Jacka.

Hmmm - re-reading them both - it does sound like two parts of the same story!
The Dinkum Kate chasing the Imitator with her lump of firewood, until he falls (revealing his Khaki trousers) & she reclaims her beloved barrow.

[ph0ebus]

frev, on 23 February 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Hmmm - re-reading them both - it does sound like two parts of the same story!
The Dinkum Kate chasing the Imitator with her lump of firewood, until he falls (revealing his Khaki trousers) & she reclaims her beloved barrow.

I wonder if pictures survive of the place where Kate lived, and if perhaps if she was such a fixture, that she may have come out in some of them in the background somewhere?

-Daniel

[Goosegirdle]

I've looked through all the AWM pictures around Ribemont sur Ancre and Buire and cannot see any pictures of the incinerator. There is a picture showing a sugar mill smoke stack.

Will Dyson did some drawings which are not viewable online. Perhaps some of those show Kate or the incinerator.

Phil

[David Filsell]

I can't keep away from this thread. I think Kate should have a facebook page
David