30 replies to this topic

[seadog]

Newspaper article on the two morons who stole a WW1 War Memorial Plaque. nice to see some good news at last!

Newspaper Article

I think the photo of these numpties says it all!. Shame that the plaque has not been recovered.

Norman

[TRAJAN]

seadog, on 03 February 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

... nice to see some good news at last!

BUT, why didn't 'the trader [who] became suspicious' call the police? And was there really 'a Polish scrap dealer', or is that just a DM invention? In the sense of, when I was a lad, it was always 'the tinkers/rag-and-bone men' wot did it!

Trajan

[egbert]

So what is the sentence for the Polish scrap dealer?
I mean the article is not necessarily a dailymail stardust and the vicar obviously needs some history lessons as you can not add something on a bronce plaque:
Quote:"St Mary’s vicar Scott Anderson said in a statement: ‘The plaque has been in the church since 1920 to 1925 and was inscribed with the names of some of those who fell in the Second World War.
End of quote

Anyway nice sentence for the looters

[seadog]

See the wood through the trees gentlemen, despite the obvious howlers perhaps it would be more productive to concentrate on the kernel of the story that is two complete wastes of space have been caught by the law and given what is considered to be an appropriate sentence. Surely that is something which members of this forum who profess an interest in all things associated with WW1 can and should be very happy at. Don’t shoot the messenger for they did not steal the memorial. It is also not surprising that the vicar got the wrong war as in my experience most of these members of the cloth have not the slightest idea with regard to what is in their churches.

Regards
Norman

[ph0ebus]

seadog, on 03 February 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

See the wood through the trees gentlemen, despite the obvious howlers perhaps it would be more productive to concentrate on the kernel of the story that is two complete wastes of space have been caught by the law and given what is considered to be an appropriate sentence. Surely that is something which members of this forum who profess an interest in all things associated with WW1 can and should be very happy at. Don’t shoot the messenger for they did not steal the memorial. It is also not surprising that the vicar got the wrong war as in my experience most of these members of the cloth have not the slightest idea with regard to what is in their churches.

Regards
Norman

Perhaps part of their sentence should be casting the replacement plaque on their own dime.

[centurion]

Egbert and Seadog - you are maligning the vicar. Bronze plaques can have inscriptions added and many cemeteries etc advertise charges for so doing ( for example so a spouse who dies later can be added) It's only when the plaque is cast with raised lettering that names are difficult to add. As its quite clear that this plaque was not specifically a war memorial but contained names of people who were not war casualties its probable that this was a plaque put up in the 1920s to which names were added on occasion. My own home parish church had a plaque just like that. Don't be gratuitously rude about someone you don't know.

[Dragon]

It's obviously just me, but when I saw the header "Some good news!" I thought the memorial had been found.

[John Hartley]

Dragon, on 03 February 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

It's obviously just me,

No, it isn't.

[Steven Broomfield]

I long ago came to terms with my inner liberal, but why is it "Good News" that characters like Clitheroe and Kelly ("48 previous convictions") are going to spend a few months inside, only - presumably - to be released to do this sort of thing all over again?

Surely, "Good News" would be thinking that Clitheroe and kelly, and all the other Clitheroes and Kellys up and down the country, had been turned into citizens who, although not necessarily model, were at least capable of living in, rather than on the fringes of, society?

So, John and Gwyn, no it wasn't just you. Even the old Tories amongst you thought the same.

[seadog]

More good news, well depending on your point of view, preceded by some bad news again depending on how you view the whole situation.

“Last month, it emerged that a plaque honouring the bravery of a World War I hero who was awarded the Victoria Cross was stolen from a park in Worksop, Nottinghamshire. Sgt William Henry Johnson single-handedly charged a German machine-gun emplacement in Ramicourt, France, in 1918. Police believe the memorial was sold for just £10.”

Latest news article

Well done to the Daily Mail for keeping this news story "up front" as it were.

Norman

[egbert]

egbert, on 03 February 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

So what is the sentence for the Polish scrap dealer?

I stand firm on my previous question.
If there were no receivers, there would be no thieves

[Chris_Baker]

Clearly the metal dealer has not been traced.

[SteveMarsdin]

Good morning Egbert,

I agree with your sentiment and the legislation is being tightened but in this case I don't think the "dealer" who took the memorial was traced. Therefore many question the Polish tag that the "newspaper" gave.

[centurion]

SteveMarsdin, on 04 February 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Good morning Egbert,

I agree with your sentiment and the legislation is being tightened but in this case I don't think the "dealer" who took the memorial was traced. Therefore many question the Polish tag that the "newspaper" gave.

  Presumably it is based on what the perps told the police. I note that a "Polish" dealer has been mentioned in confessions by other thieves in other places. I suspect it simply means "someone with a foreign accent" .

[egbert]

That's why I have striked through the nationality in my last post after reading Norman's last link. I do concur with my 3 pre-posters here all nationalities are involved, own and Eastern European. BTW, we have the same problems here in Germany; many looters come from Rom...a. And yes war memorials are not excluded, as the below shown example shows (war memorial in Kalkum with bronze plaques all stolen) . The dealers and the looters get a max of 5 years here but its difficult to sentence the max, as you all know that the guys had a difficult childhood, were beaten up by their uncles etc

Attached Files

•  2644511627.jpg   99.64K   0 downloads

[seadog]

Egbert, that is a sad image, I take it that the plaques will be replaced perhaps by something in a material which the criminals who perpetrate these disgusting crimes will have no interest in stealing!

Regards
Norman

[egbert]

Yes Norman, these 2 large stolen plaques from a war memorial in Kamen will likely be replaced with another material than precious bronze.
As you can see, you are not alone there in the UK

Attached Files

•  40603553-543x199.jpg   62.78K   0 downloads

[seadog]

Thanks Egbert, I think that it is important that existing memorial name plaques should be recorded either by photography or simple writing down of the name and details. This will at least ensure that such plaques can be replaced should they be subject to criminal attack now or in the future. I may be stating the blindingly obvious but forum members can play an important role in this by recording the details of their own local war memorials in case the unthinkable happens then at least there will be ample information available to ensure that the stolen details can be replaced.

War Memorial Mark, Somerset


Regards
Norman

[ph0ebus]

Why not replace them with carved stone?  No resale value, and certainly durable, if the right choice in stone is made...just ask any Egyptian.



-Daniel

[seadog]

An even cheaper and more durable version would be in resin mixed to look like bronze to match the original. This could be made by taking a mould from the originals whilst they are still in-situ or from photographs (if available).

Norman

[ph0ebus]

seadog, on 04 February 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

An even cheaper and more durable version would be in resin mixed to look like bronze to match the original. This could be made by taking a mould from the originals whilst they are still in-situ or from photographs (if available).

Norman

Hi Norman,

I know that the effects of resin can be quite impressive, but do we know how well resin stands the test of time, UV, elements, etc?  What will it look like in a century, compared to other mediums?  If it holds up as well or better that I say it makes sense.  If not, I say a little more investment in the front end saves you from having to do it twice or more later.

-Daniel

[seadog]

I agree with you Daniel and I do wonder that if the theft of memorial plaques and other similar artifacts continue at the present rate whether we should here in the UK be taking whatever action is possible to make the existing plaques etc more secure and better resistant to attempted theft. What these actions could be I can only guess at but I strongly suspect that there are various solutions to this problem notwithstanding the tightening up of regulations regarding metal dealers. I do know that my local church is using so called "smart water" to mark all of their leaded areas. As regards those plaques inside churches then the only solution that seems to be viable is to keep the church locked unless someone is in attendance.

Regards
Norman

[Grantowi]

seadog, on 04 February 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

An even cheaper and more durable version would be in resin mixed to look like bronze to match the original. This could be made by taking a mould from the originals whilst they are still in-situ or from photographs (if available).

That idea will only work if the pleps can tell the diffrence between resin and brass / bronze

One of the local memorials had a resin replica sword fitted (after the original was taken) and it's now broken in a couple of places where they have tried to lever it off

Grant

[anneca]

I started a topic some time ago about Memorial Hunters and 'bushfighter' kindly gave a link to an e petition.
http://epetitions.di...k/petitions/406
This is to try to make an amendment to the Scrap Metal Merchants Act 1964 to prohibit cash transactions in the effort to reduce metal theft.  I hope it still works.

[seadog]

The petition is still active unfortunately I cannot decipher the first of the words that require input to prevent spam so I gave up. Whatever brain-dead moron designed this garbage should be sacked immediately, hang on that’s an idea I will start a petition to get on-line petitions banned; now that is brilliant.

Regards
Norman