12 replies to this topic

[ChuckT]

My Grandfather (maternal side) was a A/H POW in WWI.  I have pictures of the Prison Camp and of him with other prisoners. The pictures are labeled with the name of the camp but I have been unable to locate a resource that might have more details.

I'd like to find the present-day locale of this camp.  Is there such a list?

Thanks in advance

cvt

[archangel9]

A previous thread which might help -

http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=137140

John

[John Gilinsky]

Check out my recent thread on online AH official sources in the OTHER section of the GWF.  Detailed lists of AH POWS in Russia and elsewhere give good geographical descriptors and in many cases but not all names of actual camps.
John

[ChuckT]

Your post is cryptic to me. Can you be verbose instead?

cvt

John Gilinsky, on 17 June 2011 - 06:03 PM, said:

Check out my recent thread on online AH official sources in the OTHER section of the GWF.  Detailed lists of AH POWS in Russia and elsewhere give good geographical descriptors and in many cases but not all names of actual camps.
John

[bob lembke]

ChuckT, on 23 June 2011 - 01:54 AM, said:

Your post is cryptic to me. Can you be verbose instead?

cvt

Chuck;

Your request is unfortunately phrased.

John referred to the "Other" sub-forum site.  I realize that you are new here. Go to the starting page, to the second sub-forum with five sub-sub-fora, and the bottom (fifth) one is the "Other" sub-sub-forum. I have brought up two very useful posts that John has made. I regret that I have not yet taken the time to study them properly. It looks like you may find useful information there.

Bob Lembke

[ChuckT]

Re: "recently started thread on Official AH online sources in the OTHER thread of the GWF which includes an extremely detailed and complete set of the officially published AH List of their own POWS including of course Russia"

I tried to find follow this suggestion and did not succeed.

I've also tried to send an E-Mail to a St. Petersberg - Russia website and haven't gotten an acknowledgment.

I've looked at a web-page that lists WW1 casualties by name - I think I found my grandfather there and a kind soul offered a translation. Seems like it could be him but I could not follow the details of the translation.


Still plugging away.

cvt

[bob lembke]

Chuck;

Translation from what? I assume German, happy to help there, printing or handwriting; from Russian, mine is very weak, but my wife is much better.

Bob

[ChuckT]

Thanks

I am not at my home at the moment, but will be for the weekend.

I will post what I have, the explanation I was given and my questions (about it) ASAP.

I can sorta see what the military abreviations mean but the explanation goes a bit further and maybe there's more information - in the original souce - that is unobvious to me.

bob lembke, on 26 June 2011 - 09:47 PM, said:

Chuck;

Translation from what? I assume German, happy to help there, printing or handwriting; from Russian, mine is very weak, but my wife is much better.

Bob

[ChuckT]

So here what I have - The Czech National Library's online document repository (one) citation had this information: Gurnik Jozsef, Inft., k. n. LIR. Nr. 9,11. Lomp., verw.

And this is the commentary/explanation that was posted:

Jozsef was in the k.u. LIR #9 a honved infantry regiment (not the joint AH army called the k.u.k. or Imperial and Royal Army.), the k.u. was the Royal Hungarian army.

Infantry regiments were made up of several battalions and each battalion had 6 companies. The regiment's companies were numbered consecutively. Since Jozsef was in company 11, he was likely in the 2nd battalion of IR9. Jozsef was wounded late in 1914.

There were several battle fronts at that time. LwIR9 was in the battles against the Russians in Galicia.
LwIR9 (note the Austrians called the home land armies "landwehr") was assigned to the 26 Line infantry division which was part of the 9th Corps of 4th Army.
The 4th army was commanded by Moritz von Auffenberg. The 4th army defeated the Russian 5th Army at the battle at Komarow between Aug 26 and Sept 2.
But the 4th then went to the aid of the 3rd AH army and both were defeated by the Russian Army at the battle of Rawa fought between Sept 3 and Sept. 11. Jozsef was probably wounded in one of these battles.


As I said I can sorta follow the explanation of the abbreviations up to the "wounded in 1914". I would like to know where that came from.  Is it the "Lomp., verw? What does that mean?

For any an all help -

Thank you

cvt

[bob lembke]

ChuckT, on 03 July 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

So here what I have - The Czech National Library's online document repository (one) citation had this information: Gurnik Jozsef, Inft., k. n. LIR. Nr. 9,11. Lomp., verw.

I am very familiar with German tems and abbreviations; based on that, not specific Austrian / A-H usage; here goes:

Gurnik, Jozsef, Infanterist, koenigische Landwehr Infantrie=Regiment Nr. 9, 11. Kompagnie, verwundete   or:

Gurnik, Jozsef, Infantryman (or Infantry private), Royal (meaning the Hungarian king, Austrian would be Imperial, kaiserlische) Infantry Regiment Number 9, 11th Company, wounded.

"11. Lomp." must be a typo for "11. Komp."  Note that on the keyboard the "L" is next to the "K".  Not having Uemlauts on my keyboard, I have used the modern German practice, of using "oe" for the Uemlaut "o".

Bob

[bob lembke]

In the German armies, a reservist (general sense) usually went into the Reserve at 22, when leaving active service, and at about 28-29 was transfered to the Landwehr, which itself was divided into two tiers. At about 35 he was usually transferred to the Landsturm. However, in the war these distinctions blurred; for example, a private, 21 years old, with a mild heart problem, or lightly disabled by a wound, might be transferred into the Landwehr, who mostly were 28-35 and most importantly could not and were not expected to march that fast, or carry out difficult attacks. With a weaker heart, but not bad enough for discharge, he might go into the Landsturm, with the bulk of the men from 35 to 45; these men usually guarded bridges and POWs and the like, but were not generally put into fixed battles. On the East Front this latter "rule" sometimes slipped, allowed by the usually less efficient enemy.

How old was Jozsef? It might give insight into his health and physical condition.

Bob

[ChuckT]

Thank you Bob

I have checked the source and as posted on that website, the printing is "Lomp." - but you are right, it could be a typo

bob lembke, on 03 July 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

I am very familiar with German tems and abbreviations; based on that, not specific Austrian / A-H usage; here goes:

Gurnik, Jozsef, Infanterist, koenigische Landwehr Infantrie=Regiment Nr. 9, 11. Kompagnie, verwundete   or:

Gurnik, Jozsef, Infantryman (or Infantry private), Royal (meaning the Hungarian king, Austrian would be Imperial, kaiserlische) Infantry Regiment Number 9, 11th Company, wounded.

"11. Lomp." must be a typo for "11. Komp."  Note that on the keyboard the "L" is next to the "K".  Not having Uemlauts on my keyboard, I have used the modern German practice, of using "oe" for the Uemlaut "o".

Bob

[ChuckT]

Bob - Jozsef, my Grandfather, according to family records was born in the last part of the 1880s.
I found a date of 3 June 1888 (his birth, I am fairly certain) in the St. Michael, Markusovce, SR (present day) LDS microfilms.

That date would have put him 28 or so for WW1

bob lembke, on 03 July 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:

In the German armies, a reservist (general sense) usually went into the Reserve at 22, when leaving active service, and at about 28-29 was transfered to the Landwehr, which itself was divided into two tiers. At about 35 he was usually transferred to the Landsturm. However, in the war these distinctions blurred; for example, a private, 21 years old, with a mild heart problem, or lightly disabled by a wound, might be transferred into the Landwehr, who mostly were 28-35 and most importantly could not and were not expected to march that fast, or carry out difficult attacks. With a weaker heart, but not bad enough for discharge, he might go into the Landsturm, with the bulk of the men from 35 to 45; these men usually guarded bridges and POWs and the like, but were not generally put into fixed battles. On the East Front this latter "rule" sometimes slipped, allowed by the usually less efficient enemy.

How old was Jozsef? It might give insight into his health and physical condition.

Bob