45 replies to this topic

[Rees]

Moonraker, on 07 January 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Perhaps I'm still as confused   as I was when I started this thread, but just to confirm that we've determined that the photograph I posted shows John B Owens and it's of No 1 Field Ambulance.

I've checked the List of Officers and Men Serving in the First Canadian Contingent compiled probably in early November 1914 and I can see no Rees with No 2 Field Ambulance. There is a John Andrew Rees 34319 with No 2 Stationary Hospital, and L A Rees 28667 is listed in A coy, 16th Battalion.

There are all sorts of anomalies in the roll and on at least a couple of occasions Divisional Orders listed men and asked if it was known if they were with the Contingent!

The Canadians endured terrible weather on Salisbury Plain and on several occasions tents were blown down and paperwork scattered over the countryside. I have several postcards that were forwarded from Canada in the belief that the addressees were with the Contingent and which never reached the intended recipients, and in some cases I can't trace the names. (A batch of these were auctioned locally a few years ago and last year were offered on eBay.)


Moonraker

Hi Moonraker,

I found another photo taken in England around 1901 of William.  He is much younger in this photo.  Is it the same person as in your photo??  What do  you think?
I have Williams whole military file and the promotions in Westenhanger on 16/10/14 and 29/1/15 whilst with the No 2 Field Ambulance and Can. Sany Sect respectively.  These entries were made though in 1917 to the record!  
The transfer to Capt Howlett  Larkhill comes from the War diaries January 1915 page 8 of the #2 Field Ambulance.    So with what division is Howlett??  Maybe William goes to Larkhill but is not with No 1.  I sort of thought he did though when you produced his service number.
This same page of the War diary shows the transfer of William his son.   A previous one on Dec 9 page 4 shows when William was "taken on strength"
His Canadian overseas Expeditionary Force  Attestation Paper, is stamped right across the top of it with No 2 Field Ambulance.    You certainly have stirred up a conundrum with the magnificent photo.

John Andrew (my grandfather) was originally in the No2 Field Ambulance as well but was transferred to the No2 Stationary hospital and was the first to enter France  (I have his military file as well.)

Can share more if we can somehow swap email addresses.

do not know the coy  L A Rees.

all the best.
Rees

Attached Files

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[Rees]

Moonraker, on 07 January 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Perhaps I'm still as confused   as I was when I started this thread, but just to confirm that we've determined that the photograph I posted shows John B Owens and it's of No 1 Field Ambulance.

I've checked the List of Officers and Men Serving in the First Canadian Contingent compiled probably in early November 1914 and I can see no Rees with No 2 Field Ambulance. There is a John Andrew Rees 34319 with No 2 Stationary Hospital, and L A Rees 28667 is listed in A coy, 16th Battalion.

There are all sorts of anomalies in the roll and on at least a couple of occasions Divisional Orders listed men and asked if it was known if they were with the Contingent!

The Canadians endured terrible weather on Salisbury Plain and on several occasions tents were blown down and paperwork scattered over the countryside. I have several postcards that were forwarded from Canada in the belief that the addressees were with the Contingent and which never reached the intended recipients, and in some cases I can't trace the names. (A batch of these were auctioned locally a few years ago and last year were offered on eBay.)


Moonraker

thanks for checking the other names on the photo so I can rule out the connection.

I must admit that when I saw you had William's service number at Larkhill and I saw the stripes in the photo, I thought you might have the whereabouts of  his transfer.
War diaries of #2 Field Ambulance,  Jan 1915 page 8 shows the transfer to Capt. Howlett, Larkhill of both William Rees (father and son).  [So I must now figure out who Capt Howlett and what division/unit he is in?]
War diaries of  #2 Field Ambulance,  Dec 9 1914 pg 4 shows when his son was "taken on our strength".

http://data4.collect..._e.html&r=3&f=G

Both John and William were posted to the No 2 Field Ambulance and then John was transferred to the No 2 Stationary Hospital.  I know John's group was the first in to France, and he rec'd the Mons star for it, presented to him by the Prince of Wales in a ceremony in Canada.  The youngest of the three brothers, Andrew,  is buried in France.

[Rees]

FROGSMILE, on 07 January 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Hello Rees, we did consider the possibility that the badge betwixt star and chevrons was a RAMC Geneva Red Cross, but felt that the scale was wrong and if you look closely you will see that the tips of the cross extend almost to the edge of the badge in a way that red crosses did not but the Frontiersman's badge did.

As Grumpy said, you can see the red cross badge behind and to the right of our man in the original photograph and see just how different it looks, both in scale and design.

thanks Frogsmile,  
I think I was jumping to conclusions, as I was looking for my William.  I was trying to make a crown out of the star as well!

[Moonraker]

I've looked for Captain Howlett in the roll that was probably published in November 1914 but couldn't find him. I tried to search the attestation papers for him, but the website appears to be hiccuping.

I did find this in Nicholson's Canadian Expeditionary Force 1914-1919:

"During June 1915 the [Second] Division (still incomplete in artillery) completed its
concentration in the Shorncliffe area. Divisional Headquarters, the 4th and 5th Infantry
Brigades and the 4th Brigade C.F.A. found accommodation in hutments at St. Martin's
Plain, East and West Sandling and Westenhanger. The remaining units were distributed
under canvas at Dibgate, Otterpool and New Inn Green."

I'm still puzzled as to how your man came to be at Westenhanger in October 1914, though one might infer that hutments had been built in the locality before the 2nd arrived there.

Moonraker

Just Googled "Westenhanger Canadian 1914" and got lots of hits but all seem to relate to 1915 onwards.

[Rees]

[quote name='Moonraker' timestamp='1326048284' post='1691919']
I've looked for Captain Howlett in the roll that was probably published in November 1914 but couldn't find him. I tried to search the attestation papers for him, but the website appears to be hiccuping.

I did find this in Nicholson's Canadian Expeditionary Force 1914-1919:

"During June 1915 the [Second] Division (still incomplete in artillery) completed its
concentration in the Shorncliffe area. Divisional Headquarters, the 4th and 5th Infantry
Brigades and the 4th Brigade C.F.A. found accommodation in hutments at St. Martin's
Plain, East and West Sandling and Westenhanger. The remaining units were distributed
under canvas at Dibgate, Otterpool and New Inn Green."

I'm still puzzled as to how your man came to be at Westenhanger in October 1914, though one might infer that hutments had been built in the locality before the 2nd arrived there.

Moonraker

thanks for the look Moonraker,  (I have gotten you a bit off topic)

I did find a little at this site with respect to Captain Howlett (as well as the Sanitary Section which I knew nothing about).   Apparently dealing with clean water, and sterilizing the clothes for body lice was a problem.
[url="http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/adami/camc/camc.html#XI"]http://digital.libra...mc/camc.html#XI[/url]    once at the site you can click the   ctrl  and f   keys  and with the window that pops up you can search one word at a time.

Re Westenhanger  (thanks again for questioning this)  
I went and poured through his stack of records.   The entry was in 1917 where they recorded his promotion to Staff Sgt on 29/1/15 at Westenhanger.     Westenhanger must be  where this entry is occuring in 1917.
He had gone AWOL and has surrendered himself at Westenhanger in 1917 and I guess they are re entering the dates of his promotions before discipline.  
on another page it reports on one line
16/1/15 -- #2 Fld Amb-- To Staff Stg in Sanitary Section 1st Canadians--Bustard Camps Salisbury Plains--16/1/15

thanks again Moonraker

Rees

[Moonraker]

Rees, on 08 January 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

... Apparently dealing with clean water, and sterilizing the clothes for body lice was a problem...
Rees

It was, even on Salisbury Plain. The Contingent there had its own "water expert", George Nasmith, whose memoirs, On the Fringe of the Great Fight,may be of interest. (I think they may be availabe as an e-book - a Google might be useful.) In early 1915 He was authorised to set up No 5 Mobile Laboratory, which left for France in 1915. (Its war diary is available on line.)

When in January 1915 the Canadians went into billets north of Salisbury Plain their medical staff judged pit closets in several villages to be too close to wells providing drinking water, so Lieutenant Colonel James Bridges of No. 2 General Hospital obtained chloride of lime to sterilize the supply.

Moonraker

[Moonraker]

Captain (later major)George Patrick Howlett's attestation papers are here:

here

I've searched again the roll of probably November 1914, when I now find he commanded C Section, Number 1 Field Ambulance. (Sometimes using the search box for a name in the roll fails to pick up on all the references. This time I went to the medical units and looked through them.)

Men of No. 1 Field Ambulance were sent to Lark Hill to open a 20-bed hospital on November 20, 1914. The war diary will have more details of the unit's time on the Plain.


Moonraker

[Rees]

From the Attestation papers (thanks) I see that Captain Howlett was a physician who started with the rank of Captain.  So maybe by Jan 1 1915 (a month and a half later), he is on to another job if the hospital is set up.   Too bad Howlett and my family, didn't get in the original picture that you posted from, it would have been neat to find them there.   I have William entering France, Feb 1 1915.     By this time my grandfather John  (brother to William Rees) along with John's future father inlaw, William Young my great grandpa, have already been mobilized into France with the No 2 Stationary Hospital (nov 7, 1914).   The other brother Andrew is killed at Hill 60 in April 1915 and I am still searching for his grave.    Moonraker have you seen the movie "Beneath Hill 60"  released last year?   I hadn't realised the Australian contributions.    I often wonder how they were notified of their brother being killed, and how that communication channel functioned during the war.

[Rees]

What is the difference between the star and the crown on Owens' sleeve and William's sleeve.   After googling it, my understanding is that the crown replaces the star in 1915 when they become warrant officers.   Why do they invert the chevrons (points up or points down) from the shoulder position to the sleeve position?  Why lower the emblems from the shoulder and put them on the sleeve?
Does anyone know a reason for the differences noted?  Or is there a reason?
http://en.wikipedia....s_rank_insignia

[FROGSMILE]

Rees, on 12 January 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

What is the difference between the star and the crown on Owens' sleeve and William's sleeve.   After googling it, my understanding is that the crown replaces the star in 1915 when they become warrant officers.   Why do they invert the chevrons (points up or points down) from the shoulder position to the sleeve position?  Why lower the emblems from the shoulder and put them on the sleeve?
Does anyone know a reason for the differences noted?  Or is there a reason?
http://en.wikipedia....s_rank_insignia

In the British service a man with 4 inverted chevrons and a crown is an Acting Sergeant Major (ASM) of a Territorial unit - not a warrant officer at that time, as that was a rank only for Regular units, who was the 'equivalent' of a Regular Battalion's Sergeant Major, but wore a different badge of rank. The ASM was a Regular Colour Sergeant Instructor (one of several in each Territorial unit) who was appointed by the Battalions CO. Regular Colour Sergeants were able to apply for a post with a Territorial Battalion to complete their last few years of Colour Service. The 4 chevron badge of rank was changed to the crown used by the Regulars in 1915 (along with the grant of warrant officer status) and, likewise, the full coat of arms in 1918.

I believe that Colonial / Dominion units had something similar in the early part of the war.

[Rees]

FROGSMILE, on 18 January 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

In the British service a man with 4 inverted chevrons and a crown is an Acting Sergeant Major (ASM) of a Territorial unit - not a warrant officer at that time, as that was a rank only for Regular units, who was the 'equivalent' of a Regular Battalion's Sergeant Major, but wore a different badge of rank. The ASM was a Regular Colour Sergeant Instructor (one of several in each Territorial unit) who was appointed by the Battalions CO. Regular Colour Sergeants were able to apply for a post with a Territorial Battalion to complete their last few years of Colour Service. The 4 chevron badge of rank was changed to the crown used by the Regulars in 1915 (along with the grant of warrant officer status) and, likewise, the full coat of arms in 1918.

I believe that Colonial / Dominion units had something similar in the early part of the war.

Interesting, I can see in his (William picture, date not known, shown earlier in this thread) records, that he attained the rank of Staff Sergeant whilst with the second Sany section of the CAMC.  I don't see any other term/reference to rank used.  So I guess the question is, does this reference in the record match the insignia of Staff Sergeant and is that an ASM?  His obit states that he became a regimental sergeant major with the Canadian Army after WW1.    Trying to put a date on the picture.
I was just given a set of playing cards from WW1 that were my great grandfather's.  They are called Tactics,  the military game.  They show a picture of each uniform of suits being: infrantry, cavalry, artillery, and engineers. for each rank, starting with private through the ranks to Lieut Gen ie 10 ranks.   I guess the intent of them was for the soldiers to be able to lean to identify the uniforms and rank by playing with the cards.    (or maybe this was a post war game--not sure)  Anyways they don't include the detail needed to decipher the differences that I have seen in this forum.  
Thanks Frogsmile.

[Graham Stewart]

Rees, on 12 January 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

What is the difference between the star and the crown on Owens' sleeve and William's sleeve.   After googling it, my understanding is that the crown replaces the star in 1915 when they become warrant officers.   Why do they invert the chevrons (points up or points down) from the shoulder position to the sleeve position?  Why lower the emblems from the shoulder and put them on the sleeve?
Does anyone know a reason for the differences noted?  Or is there a reason?
http://en.wikipedia....s_rank_insignia

I would forget using Wikipedia for matters of a military concern, as it contains more misleading pieces of information than you can shake a big stick at. UK Army rank structure can be a very complicated matter, and what Wikipedia doesn't take into consideration is the fact that we had regulars seconded to both the Militia/Special Reserve and Volunteers/Territorials. This caused the need for a pattern in rank insignia with which to identify those who were assigned as regular 'instructors' from those who were either Militiamen/SR's or Volunteers/Territorials. On top of which you have ranks that differ among the Guards, Corps, Cavalry & Yeomanry.

Sadly I don't think there is a comprehensive illustrated work on our rank structure, which would help those wishing to know more, but we do try and help here.

[GRUMPY]

you could try:

http://1914-1918.inv...1

but I did not get as far as reserve forces.

[FROGSMILE]

Rees, on 19 January 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

Interesting, I can see in his (William picture, date not known, shown earlier in this thread) records, that he attained the rank of Staff Sergeant whilst with the second Sany section of the CAMC.  I don't see any other term/reference to rank used.  So I guess the question is, does this reference in the record match the insignia of Staff Sergeant and is that an ASM?  His obit states that he became a regimental sergeant major with the Canadian Army after WW1.    Trying to put a date on the picture.
I was just given a set of playing cards from WW1 that were my great grandfather's.  They are called Tactics,  the military game.  They show a picture of each uniform of suits being: infrantry, cavalry, artillery, and engineers. for each rank, starting with private throught the ranks to Lieut Gen ie 10 ranks.   I guess the intent of them was for the soldiers to be able to lean to identify the uniforms and rank by playing with the cards.    (or maybe this was a post war game--not sure)  Anyways they don't include the detail needed to decipher the differences that I have seen in this forum.  
Thanks Frogsmile.

What causes a lot of confusion Rees is that at that time "Staff Sergeant" was a generic term for a grouping of SNCOs in the Army (especially infantry and cavalry, but also in the other arms) and used to differentiate between those employed at sub-unit level (companies and squadrons/troops) and specialists at unit level (battalion and regiment).  In that sense they were a grouping rather like warrant officers are today and indeed many of the former staff sergeants later became re-categorised as warrant officers under rank reorganisations during WW1.   Furthermore, rather like there are two classes of warrant officer today, there were at that time (up until 1915) three classes of Staff Sergeant.

What made matters worse is that in some of the other, smaller Corps that specialised in line of communication duties, there were a great deal less staff sergeant appointments so that the term was to a degree seen more as a rank there than as a grouping.  The peculiar regimental system of the British Army had allowed each of the Corps to develop in isolatation and thus evolve its own ranking structure that suited its particular circumstances and role.  As time went on this became increasingly untenable, as when all arms (and Regular, Territorial and Service) groupings formed for war, there was a lack of understanding regarding equivalence that sometimes led to squabbling about precedence and other confusion.  

WW1 brought all of this to a head and led to what was almost certainly the biggest and most sustained upheaval in the British Army's enlisted man ranking structure ever.  The period between 1914 and 1918 included changes in titles and badges of rank that caused some resentment, as there were both winners and losers and some of the changes led to the loss of dress privileges that had been hard earned over several centuries.  Nevertheless, by 1918 things were relatively settled and the rank structure of today is little changed from that which was first established then.

Put simply then, as the ASM was not (prior to 1915) a warrant officer like his regular equivalent, he was at that time a First Class Staff Sergeant.

[Rees]

FROGSMILE, on 19 January 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

What causes a lot of confusion Rees is that at that time "Staff Sergeant" was a generic term for a grouping of SNCOs in the Army (especially infantry and cavalry, but also in the other arms) and used to differentiate between those employed at sub-unit level (companies and squadrons/troops) and specialists at unit level (battalion and regiment).  In that sense they were a grouping rather like warrant officers are today and indeed many of the former staff sergeants later became re-categorised as warrant officers under rank reorganisations during WW1.   Furthermore, rather like there are two classes of warrant officer today, there were at that time (up until 1915) three classes of Staff Sergeant.

What made matters worse is that in some of the other, smaller Corps that specialised in line of communication duties, there were a great deal less staff sergeant appointments so that the term was to a degree seen more as a rank there than as a grouping.  The peculiar regimental system of the British Army had allowed each of the Corps to develop in isolatation and thus evolve its own ranking structure that suited its particular circumstances and role.  As time went on this became increasingly untenable, as when all arms (and Regular, Territorial and Service) groupings formed for war, there was a lack of understanding regarding equivalence that sometimes led to squabbling about precedence and other confusion.  

WW1 brought all of this to a head and led to what was almost certainly the biggest and most sustained upheaval in the British Army's enlisted man ranking structure ever.  The period between 1914 and 1918 included changes in titles and badges of rank that caused some resentment, as there were both winners and losers and some of the changes led to the loss of dress privileges that had been hard earned over several centuries.  Nevertheless, by 1918 things were relatively settled and the rank structure of today is little changed from that which was first established then.

Put simply then, as the ASM was not (prior to 1915) a warrant officer like his regular equivalent, he was at that time a First Class Staff Sergeant.

Thanks Everyone,  (Grumpy, Frogsmile and Graham)  You have helped immensly with this.

so Four Chevrons with Crown,   (First Class Staff Sergeant)  for William,    (second field ambulance transferred to second Sany section)

and Four Chevrons with Star,  "   (Quartermaster Sergeant/ ) "  for Owen  (Moonrakers man in the photo)  (first field ambulance)  

Both men I believe are with the CAMC Canadian Army Medical Corp.  
(I am going to read through the thread again, in case I missed something.)    

all the best,
Rees
ps fortunate for me that I found Moonraker's posting of Williams Service number, so that I could sort this out.

[FROGSMILE]

Rees, on 20 January 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Thanks Everyone,  (Grumpy, Frogsmile and Graham)  You have helped immensly with this.

so Four Chevrons with Crown,   (First Class Staff Sergeant)  for William,    (second field ambulance transferred to second Sany section)

and Four Chevrons with Star,  "   (Quartermaster Sergeant/ ) "  for Owen  (Moonrakers man in the photo)  (first field ambulance)  

Both men I believe are with the CAMC Canadian Army Medical Corp.  
(I am going to read through the thread again, in case I missed something.)    

all the best,
Rees
ps fortunate for me that I found Moonraker's posting of Williams Service number, so that I could sort this out.

Not entirely Rees, no.

1914 - 4 chevrons and crown in Territorial and Colonial / Dominion Units either, acting sergeant major (British), or sergeant major (remainder), both under the 'grouping' of staff sergeant first class  (British Regulars had a warrant officer (sergeant major) as 'equivalent', but with a plain crown as badge).  In 1915 this was standardized throughout, as warrant officer first class for all, with a badge change to a coat of arms.

1914 -  4 chevrons and star in Territorial, Regular and Colonial / Dominion Units - quarter master sergeant, also under the 'grouping' of staff sergeant first class.   In 1915 this was standardized throughout as warrant officer second class for all, with a badge of crown within laurel wreath.

Note:  These ranks and badges did not apply to several cavalry regiments, especially Horse Guards, who stubbornly continued to do their own thing.

[GRUMPY]

FROGSMILE, on 21 January 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Not entirely Rees, no.

1914 - 4 chevrons and crown in Territorial and Colonial / Dominion Units either, acting sergeant major (British), or sergeant major (remainder), both under the 'grouping' of staff sergeant first class  (British Regulars had a warrant officer (sergeant major) as 'equivalent', but with a plain crown as badge).  In 1915 this was standardized throughout, as warrant officer first class for all, with a badge change to a coat of arms.

1914 -  4 chevrons and star in Territorial, Regular and Colonial / Dominion Units - quarter master sergeant, also under the 'grouping' of staff sergeant first class.   In 1915 this was standardized throughout as warrant officer second class for all, with a badge of crown within laurel wreath.

Note:  These ranks and badges did not apply to several cavalry regiments, especially Horse Guards, who stubbornly continued to do their own thing.

Not entirely entirely Frogsmile!

The 1915 change introduced the Crown on its own for all infantry WO II, which lumped CSM and RQMS together, in effect a blurring of the seniority that the RQMS had over the erstwhile C-Sgt appointed CSM in 1914 and badged in 1915. This was only put right just before end of war with the wreath added for the RQMS alone. I imagine the mysteriously powerful QM lobby, with its paws on everything from rum to bullets and blankets might have had something to do with the change!

[FROGSMILE]

GRUMPY, on 21 January 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Not entirely entirely Frogsmile!

The 1915 change introduced the Crown on its own for all infantry WO II, which lumped CSM and RQMS together, in effect a blurring of the seniority that the RQMS had over the erstwhile C-Sgt appointed CSM in 1914 and badged in 1915. This was only put right just before end of war with the wreath added for the RQMS alone. I imagine the mysteriously powerful QM lobby, with its paws on everything from rum to bullets and blankets might have had something to do with the change!

Yes of course, even as I was writing the above, trying carefully to make things clear, I had an uneasy feeling that something was missing and I was wishing I had the appropriate information to hand.  Yet another example that it is best not to write these things late at night!  I will re-write the post again.

[FROGSMILE]

Rees, on 20 January 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Thanks Everyone,  (Grumpy, Frogsmile and Graham)  You have helped immensly with this.

so Four Chevrons with Crown,   (First Class Staff Sergeant)  for William,    (second field ambulance transferred to second Sany section)

and Four Chevrons with Star,  "   (Quartermaster Sergeant/ ) "  for Owen  (Moonrakers man in the photo)  (first field ambulance)  

Both men I believe are with the CAMC Canadian Army Medical Corp.  
(I am going to read through the thread again, in case I missed something.)    

all the best,
Rees
ps fortunate for me that I found Moonraker's posting of Williams Service number, so that I could sort this out.

Not entirely Rees, no.

1914 - 4 chevrons and crown in Territorial and Colonial / Dominion Units either, acting sergeant major (British), or sergeant major (remainder), both under the 'grouping' of staff sergeant first class (British Regulars had a warrant officer (sergeant major) as 'equivalent', but with a plain crown as badge). In 1915 this was standardized throughout, as warrant officer first class for all, with a badge change to a coat of arms.

1914 - 4 chevrons and star in Territorial, Regular and Colonial / Dominion Units - quarter master sergeant, also under the 'grouping' of staff sergeant first class. In 1915 this was standardized throughout as warrant officer second class for all, with a badge of a plain crown that had before 1915 been worn by the Regular sergeant majors.

Note:
1.  These ranks and badges did not apply to several cavalry regiments, especially Horse Guards, who stubbornly continued to do their own thing.

2.  The 1915 changes led to the new warrant officers 'second class' in the appointments company sergeant major and regimental quartermaster sergeant wearing the same plain crown, which did not make clear the seniority of the latter appointment as the previous rank markings had done.  This caused understandable angst and, in 1918, it was put right by awarding the badge of crown within a laurel wreath to the regimental quartermaster sergeant.  This in turn affected some types of warrant officer first class who had previously worn that badge, but I will not muddy the water further, as your query does not require those details.

This must seem very complicated, but you must understand that there had never been such an enormous Army of mixed Regulars, Territorials, and War-Raised units, both British and Colonial / Dominion origin, of all arms and services, deployed in a world war.  The intensity threw into sharp relief some of the incongruous and illogical aspects of the ranking structure and impelled a desire to do something about it.

[Rees]

thanks Frogsmile,  something to be said about standardizing things.  
You are right, very confusing when starting to figure this out, I am sure those there at the time, had the necessity of figuring it out quickly.

[FROGSMILE]

Rees, on 26 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

thanks Frogsmile,  something to be said about standardizing things.  
You are right, very confusing when starting to figure this out, I am sure those there at the time, had the necessity of figuring it out quickly.

The concept of Staff Sergeants was rather like that of Staff Officers, they were a 'grouping' of specialists, but at various levels of command/authority.