49 replies to this topic

[Cheepie]

My husband's grandfather was a Boer War veteran who had been shot in the leg, leaving him with a permanent limp.

Family "lore" says that when he recieved call up papers in 1916, he flatly refused to go as he felt he'd done his bit for king & country already, and been left unable to work with no pension after the Boer War

The M.P.s came, he was arrested, and later he did serve with the East Surrey Regiment (so i believe but am uncertain) & came home in one piece

Would there be any record of this rumoured episode? I am planning on going  up to Kew to see if there is any record surviving for him. So far I've been 50% lucky with other ancestors!!

I am hoping to find his Regimental details to help me find some info on his time in South Africa

Any ideas gratefully recieved

Thanks

[CarylW]

Cheepie

Try your local newspapers. He may have appeared at a Military Tribunal for war exemption, or at least a solicitor may have represesented his case for him at the tribunal and these cases are in local newspapers - most of the official records of Military Tribunal war exemptions were destroyed in I think 1923, so the newspapers are often the only record of these tribunals

There is more about these cases in another topic

Click Here




Caryl

[BeppoSapone]

Cheepie

Try your local newspapers. He may have appeared at a Military Tribunal for war exemption, or at least a solicitor may have represesented his case for him at the tribunal and these cases are in local newspapers - most of the official records of Military Tribunal war exemptions were destroyed in I think 1923, so the newspapers are often the only record of these tribunals

There is more about these cases in another topic

Click Here
Caryl

IIRC even though the Tribunals were covered in the local press, they were not allowed to use names. You will see: "a 30 year nurseryman ", "an 18 year old art pupil-teacher", "a 25 year old miner" etc etc. This can be of use if you know the age and occupation of the man that you are researching.

Once a mans appeals had been turned down he would be arrested and appear in the local Magistrates Court. At this stage he was named and fined 40 shillings for not reporting. He was then handed over to the Military Authorities.

The 40 shillings (£2) seems to be the standard fine. I have come across at least one case of a man being fined £5 for the trouble he had caused the army. He went 'on the trot', causing the army to search for him in Brighton, Hove, Haywards Heath, London etc etc

[Tony Lund]

Also try the Absent Voters Register for 1918, this man was obviously old enough to vote, and his regiment and battalion and service number should be next to his home address.

I can confirm all that has been said about the newspapers, and I would be surprised if he did not appear in court if he refused to respond to the call up papers.  So there may well be a report of a court case with his name.  So far as tribunals go in my area no names were ever given.

Tony.

[CarylW]

In the newspaper I have (Caernarvon & Denbigh Herald 1917) names and addresses are given in these cases - in each and every case in fact. Even in the Appeal Tribunal cases names and addresses are listed.

examples:

Evan M Hughes (35) 4 Cefn Coed Talysarn, quarryman, - no exemption, not to be called up until June 30th

John R Roberts (23) Ty'n'rardd, Llanberis quarryman and farmer, - His application for leave to lodge another application for exemption refused

I'm almost certain I've seen other Military Tribunal exemption cases listing names and addresses too in other local newspapers I've been viewing on microfilm

Caryl

[BeppoSapone]

Caryl

Interesting that the Welsh papers printed names. I don't think that they should have. Sussex papers certainly didn't, and said that they were not allowed to.

Thinking about it, what is the man who is named going to do? Once in the army I would imagine that he had other things on his mind!

[CarylW]

BP

Must have varied from area to area. Unless...What dates of newspapers have you seen for Sussex that didn't list names? All dates? Did it depend on the year I wonder? Did they list them at first and then decide not to, or vice versa?
I'll take a look at some more microfilm and see if all dates/years had the names and addresses

Caryl

[BeppoSapone]

BP

Must have varied from area to area. What dates of newspapers have you seen for Sussex that didn't list names? All dates? Did it depend on the year I wonder? Did they list them at first and then decide not to, or vice versa?
I'll take a look at some more microfilm and see if all dates/years had the names and addresses

Caryl

Caryl

I was looking at 1916. I did a compare and contrast thing, Horsham v Brighton. The men were not named in either the Horsham or the Brighton papers, until the time they were arrested. Urban Brighton was a lot more "hard line" than rural Horsham.

Horsham men were mostly "Alternativists" and able to do agricultural work instead of joining the army.

Brighton had its own branch of the N-CF, mostly the "Peace Artists" from the Art College and members of TUs from the LB&SC Railway Workshops. Fair numbers of Brighton and Hove men were "Absolutists" doing hard labour on bread and water. Two died, one in prison and the other shortly after his release from the army.

This last man was an artist, of Quaker origin, called Royle "Roy" Richmond. Roy had advanced heart disease and was just about housebound. He insisted on his right to conscientious objection but still ended up arrested and in the army. He collapsed before he had the chance to disobey an order, and spent all but the first day of his service in a military hospital waiting for his papers to catch up with him in order to be discharged.

He was "well connected". The woman that he was engaged to took over as joint editor of "The Tribunal" after Bertrand Russell was jailed. His mother, Kathryn Richmond, has been credited with thinking up the White Peace Poppy.

Self portrait of Roy Richmond who died in 1916. IIRC he was 26.

Attached Files

•  RoyRichmond.jpg   24.78K   0 downloads

[CarylW]

BP

Very interesting. The poor man with advanced heart disease being called up! Not surprised he collapsed

I wonder if a Military Service Act or a clause or revision of an act between 1916-17 allowed newspapers to publish the names of those before exemption tribunals? It seems odd that one area would publish and another wasn't allowed
Sort of a name and shame effort to aid the conscription crisis?
I'm not particularly au fait with Military Service Acts, have only read the bare bones of them while researching other matters

Caryl

[BeppoSapone]

BP

Very interesting. The poor man with advanced heart disease being called up! Not surprised he collapsed

I wonder if a Military Service Act or a clause or revision of an act between 1916-17 allowed newspapers to publish the names of those before exemption tribunals? It seems odd that one area would publish and another wasn't allowed
Sort of a name and shame effort to aid the conscription crisis?
I'm not particularly au fait with Military Service Acts, have only read the bare bones of them while researching other matters

Caryl

Caryl

It is a long time since I read them, but I think that there is some detail on the non publishing of the names in either, or both, of the two main books on conscientious objection. "Conscience & Politics" by John Rae (Right wing perspective) or "Objection Overruled" by David Boulton (Left wing perspective)

Roy Richmonds case is even worse than I said. IIRC he was clearly so ill that he was asked if he wanted to avoid the call up on grounds other than conscientious objection. He could have said "I have a bad heart" and gone home.

Since he was legally entitled to apply for exemption on the grounds of conscientious objection he insisted on doing so. He said: "You understand, I am a conscientious objector, and such I remain".

This attitude to sick people was not unique. There was a conscientious objector from Croydon called Charles John Cobb, who also died as a result of resisting militarism: "In prison the labour really was 'hard' and he was forced to haul huge sacks of coal despite suffering from consumption and severe lung problems".

In 1999 he had a street named after him. I have an article about this, but it will not load. I will try again tomorrow.

[BeppoSapone]

This attitude to sick people was not unique. There was a conscientious objector from Croydon called Charles John Cobb, who also died as a result of resisting militarism: "In prison the labour really was 'hard' and he was forced to haul huge sacks of coal despite suffering from consumption and severe lung problems".

In 1999 he had a street named after him. I have an article about this, but it will not load. I will try again tomorrow.

The text of this article will not load. I will have to see if I can reduce the size. Meanwhile, here is a photo of C J Cobb's grave, culled from the article.

Cobb died just three weeks after release from prison, leaving his wife and young son destitute. For seventy years his body lay in an unmarked grave, and this stone was paid for by donations.

Attached Files

•  Cobb.jpg   97.71K   0 downloads

[KateJ]

I wonder if a Military Service Act or a clause or revision of an act between 1916-17 allowed newspapers to publish the names of those before exemption tribunals? It seems odd that one area would publish and another wasn't allowed
Caryl

Men were being named in local tribunals in Essex in 1917 (so far the only year I've looked at).  This is from the Essex Chronicle for 12 October 1917


"County tribunals – Dunmow.  George Edward Robson 29 married tailor Dunmow, appealed and put in a medical certificate that he was suffering from the effects of an operation.  Mr Orfeur for Robson said this was essentially a one-man business which would have to be closed if he went to the war.  Robson’s brother had been killed in the war, and the workman had been taken prisoner so that the three men originally in the business had been reduced to one.  He had been examined by the Central Medical Board by order of the Dunmow Tribunal and had been classed B1.  Mr Orfeur said in addition to the business hardship, Robson had three complaints.  The Chairman: You have appealed to Caesar and must take the result; we cannot go behind the Central Medical Board in the matter of health.  Robson said the profits of his business was about £75 per year.  Capt Howard said separation pay would amount to almost £75 a years: tailors were wanted. – Dismissed; one month allowed"

[Paul Nixon]

This from the East Sussex News, June 9th 1916.

HEAD GARDENER & MILITARY SERVICE
"At the sitting of the County Appeal Tribunal at Lewes last Thursday, the Military appealed in the case of F W Shepherd, gardener in the employ of Mr W G Cotesworth of Roeheath who was granted conditional exemption from military service by the Chailey Rural District Tribunal while remaining in his present occupation.  Mr Cotesworth attended in support of the decision of the local Tribunal.  The Tribunal granted the appeal, but allowed the man exemption for six weeks."

[BeppoSapone]

This from the East Sussex News, June 9th 1916.

HEAD GARDENER & MILITARY SERVICE
"At the sitting of the County Appeal Tribunal at Lewes last Thursday, the Military appealed in the case of F W Shepherd, gardener in the employ of Mr W G Cotesworth of Roeheath who was granted conditional exemption from military service by the Chailey Rural District Tribunal while remaining in his present occupation.  Mr Cotesworth attended in support of the decision of the local Tribunal.  The Tribunal granted the appeal, but allowed the man exemption for six weeks."

As your case is from Sussex I think then that it must have been the decision of individual papers, rather than local areas. I would have given my eye teeth for the names when I was looking.

In fact, I remember one case being covered in the "West Sussex County Times" involving the Horsham Tribunal. They made a joke out of the fact that the mans name could not be mentioned, and neither could that of his employer. I can't remember the wording but the employer was a member of the Tribunal and "stood down" in this particular case.

[CarylW]

Beppo what sad cases. It must have taken a lot of courage to have been a conscientious objector at that time. As you say Roy Richards could have just said he had a bad heart and C J Cobb would have been exempt on medical grounds but both chose to adhere to their principles of objection - brave men.

There are interesting cases here in a study at Leeds University.
Here



The researcher,  lecturer and author Cyril Pearce has found a 'hotspot of pacifism' in Huddersfield

Pearce is now hunting through the records to document all the objectors across the country into one database, so he can plot whether any other hotspots exist...."The records of individuals who went before the tribunals were destroyed in the 1920s," he explains. "The only way to uncover the detail now is to follow the fragments of information in press reports.

"War resisters in the Great War were under-reported, but a journal produced by the No-Conscription Federation – The Tribunal – has records of individuals going before tribunals, and to prison, army camp, army prison and work centres. By logging their movements it’s possible to see where they came from, and what they went through."



There are two prominent CO cases listed in the Caernarvon & Denbigh Herald, both men students, one at a Baptist College. One who was granted exemption at a previous hearing because he had been invited to become pastor at the Northwich Baptist Church, and the condition of his exemption was that he did take up the post but he found that because of the publicity in the press about his case and members of the congregation who had members of their family in the service voiced their objections he had to withdraw from the position

....The publicity given through the press to the case came to the knowledge of the deacons and members of the congregation, who themselves had sons and brothers serving in the Army or at the front, found themselves unable to aquiesce in the continuation of an invitation to a pastor who held conscientious scruples about war service. A church meeting was called and the feeling so strong that the secretary of the church wrote to Mr Bowen informing him of the feelings of the church and suggesting that he should reconsider his position.....


Kate

It looks to have been a decision to publish names made between 1916-17 then and not an area specific one if you have also found the mens names included in local papers

Very interesting is this!


Caryl

[Paul Nixon]

As your case is from Sussex I think then that it must have been the decision of individual papers, rather than local areas.

Could be Beppo, not sure on that.  Interestingly Mr Cotesworth had ten servants in 1901.  At the time this tribunal was convened he was living with his daughter Margaret Cotesworth (commandant of Sussex 54 VAD).  His son was serving in the army.  He did, however, have extensive gardens...

F W Shepherd ended up serving with the RGA and appears to have survived the war.

[Tony Lund]

There are no names given in reports of Tribunal business during the whole of 1916 and 1917 at Holmfirth and New Mill, I haven’t seriously looked at 1918 yet.

I have seen a report of conscription papers being burnt at a public meeting in Saint George’s Square at Huddersfield, there was also a public meeting at New Mill, near Holmfirth, (about 7 miles from Huddersfield) during which a resolution was passed praising the Russian people for their revolution and calling upon workers to take over the means of production in this country.  These meeting are not uncommon throughout the war, and seem to involve a mixture of socialists, non-conformists, and pacifists.  

Just to confuse things, in the early stages some people who attended the No Conscription Fellowship meetings supported the war but opposed conscription, so there are many different factions and many shades of opinion coming together from time to time.  

I believe at the time of the Russian revolution similar meetings were banned in Leeds.

Tony.

[BeppoSapone]

I have seen a report of conscription papers being burnt at a public meeting in Saint George’s Square at Huddersfield, there was also a public meeting at New Mill, near Holmfirth, (about 7 miles from Huddersfield) during which a resolution was passed praising the Russian people for their revolution and calling upon workers to take over the means of production in this country.  These meeting are not uncommon throughout the war, and seem to involve a mixture of socialists, non-conformists, and pacifists.

Tony

This is true, but I suspect that the pro-war lobby was stronger in the south.

For example, "Horsham Council Against Conscription" - probably a "one man and a dog" organisation, there was really no organised Labour and no NCF branch in West Sussex - invited two anti-war speakers down from London. One was Sylvia Pankhurst and the other, IIRC, was an Alex Gossip of the Furniture Trades Union. The open air meeting was due to have been held in the Carfax, which is the central part of Horsham. Sylvia Pankhurst opened her mouth to speak, but was drowned out by boos and cat calls and pelted with rotten fruit etc, actually being hit in the face. Police linked arms to hold back the crowd whilst Pankhurst et al made their getaway, being driven to Horsham railway station.

The local paper "West Sussex County Times" carried this news and also mentions rather a lot about the "Fine Fourths", the local TA battalion. 1/4th Royal Sussex had been in action at "Silver Bay" (Suvla Bay) and a reporter was sent to a hospital at Chichester to interview local men who had been invalided home.

In the Brighton papers I read of a demonstration by the "Blue Boys", wounded soldiers. They intended to stop "Peace Cranks" from speaking at Eastbourne and told the reporter that "they had a rope about them". IIRC wounded New Zealanders were most renowned for attacking peace meetings.

Ken Weller has written on the anti war strands of thought in one part of London, but I think that it was most strongly developed on Clydeside.

[BeppoSapone]

Beppo what sad cases. It must have taken a lot of courage to have been a conscientious objector at that time. As you say Roy Richards could have just said he had a bad heart and C J Cobb would have been exempt on medical grounds but both chose to adhere to their principles of objection - brave men.

Very interesting is this!
Caryl

Caryl

Try a search of this forum for info on Oliver Bridle, who was the other Brighton man who died. He went to prison because he religion said "Thou Shallt Not Kill". He honestly felt that he had done nothing wrong. When he was offered extra food and warmer clothing etc as "rewards" for good behaviour he turned them down. Since he was innocent the only thing he would accept from the government was his release.

He died in Maidstone prison as a result.

[BeppoSapone]

[i]Pearce is now hunting through the records to document all the objectors across the country into one database, so he can plot whether any other hotspots exist...."The records of individuals who went before the tribunals were destroyed in the 1920s," he explains. "The only way to uncover the detail now is to follow the fragments of information in press reports.

Plus the records of the Quaker's "Visitation of Prisoners Committee". This committee had a record sheet for every conscientious objector.

These records can be viewed at the Friends Library in London's Euston Road.

It is also worth checking County Record Offices. Although Tribunal Records were supposed to have been destroyed in 1922, some 'bumf' might have survived.

For example, East Sussex Record Office at Lewes had something to do with the East Sussex Appeal Tribunal. I can't remember the name of the piece at the moment, but it included letters, including some denouncing people who were due to appear before the tribunal, unsigned IIRC.

[BeppoSapone]

I have seen a report of conscription papers being burnt at a public meeting in Saint George’s Square at Huddersfield, there was also a public meeting at New Mill, near Holmfirth, (about 7 miles from Huddersfield) during which a resolution was passed praising the Russian people for their revolution and calling upon workers to take over the means of production in this country.  These meeting are not uncommon throughout the war, and seem to involve a mixture of socialists, non-conformists, and pacifists.  

Tony.

Tony

Seeing mention of Huddersfield has jogged my memory. Have you come across a Huddersfield conscientious objector called Willie Kippax?

Put the key word "Kippax" into the search engine and you will probably find a postcard that I posted as part of an earlier thread on conscientious objection.

The photo is of a road repairing or building gang based at Dyce in Aberdeenshire in 1917. All four of the men are English, one from Brighton, one from London, one from Croydon and one Willie Kippax from Huddersfield.

[Cheepie]

Thanks for all your ideas

I've been out of action for a few months so Sorry for not thanking sooner

Best wishes

[Tony Lund]

Tony
Seeing mention of Huddersfield has jogged my memory. Have you come across a Huddersfield conscientious objector called Willie Kippax?

I have only just seen this post.  The name Willie Kippax is interesting, I shall have a dig around tomorrow; in the meantime I have this, but I don’t know yet if it refers to the same Kippax.  Huddersfield is the nearest large town to Holmfirth:-

Walter Haywood was killed in action on Saturday the 7th of August 1915, a Private (14409), 8th Battalion, Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment.  Born at Burnlee, Holmfirth, a twenty year old member of the Holmfirth Harriers and Saint John’s Institute, he enlisted at Huddersfield; while serving at Gallipoli Walter Haywood was mentioned in dispatches by Sir Ian Hamilton, Commander of British Forces.  

Originally he was reported to be wounded and missing.  This prompted his mother, Mrs William Kippax, of Burnlee, Holmfirth, to appeal to the troops in Gallipoli for information through the pages of the Holmfirth Express, he was officially declared killed in action on the above date around a year later, after information from the troops accumulated by the Vicar of Upperthong, the Revered Beamish, was passed to the War Office.  

Tony.

[Magnumbellum]

Caryl, on 20 February 2006 - 12:29 AM, said:

I wonder if a Military Service Act or a clause or revision of an act between 1916-17 allowed newspapers to publish the names of those before exemption tribunals? It seems odd that one area would publish and another wasn't allowed
Sort of a name and shame effort to aid the conscription crisis?
I'm not particularly au fait with Military Service Acts, have only read the bare bones of them while researching other matters

Caryl

Military Service Tribunals - to give them their correct name (run by civilians and not by the military and therefore not "Military Tribunals")  - were open to the public as well as the press and therefore there would have been no point in legal prohibition of the publication of names of applicants, and there certainly was never any such prohibition, either under the Military Service Acts or under any subordinate regulations.

It is a fact, however, that some newspapers in certain areas never published names. This could have arisen in one of two ways: either newspaper editors/proprietors adopted a policy of not publishing names, or certain tribunals requested newspapers not to publish names - they had no power to forbid publication, but presumably they could make such a request known, and a subservient local press could have gone along with it. It is difficult to understand what the purpose of suppression of names might have been, since, as I have said, the hearings were open to the public, and details, including names, could be spread by word of mouth, anyway.

Some tribunals diid ecercise a power to hear a particfular case in camera, in which case, of course, not only the name, but the details would not be published, but there was criticism that some tribunals exercised the in camera provision without good reason. Neither David Boulton nor John Rae discuss in their books the issue of the concealment of names in press reports of tribunal hearings.

[MichaelBully]

I have been trying to find COs from Hove. The Peace Pledge Union archivist has kindly responded to a query I sent concerning Hove COs. It seems that on the PPU database there is currently only one Hove CO, that is Royle 'Roy' Richmond-discussed as below. In my limited research in this field I think there were at least two more in Hove, but Brighton scores far  higher with 15 known COs on the PPU database.

Certainly have to state my admiration for Roy Richmond. Those who served their country in the Great War by fighting showed incredible dedication and sacrifice, but there were certainly indivuals who didn't fight  who also demonstrated  a great deal of courage .

BeppoSapone, on 19 February 2006 - 11:14 PM, said:

QUOTE (CarylW @ Feb 19 2006, 10:50 PM) BP

Must have varied from area to area. What dates of newspapers have you seen for Sussex that didn't list names? All dates? Did it depend on the year I wonder? Did they list them at first and then decide not to, or vice versa?
I'll take a look at some more microfilm and see if all dates/years had the names and addresses

Caryl

Caryl

I was looking at 1916. I did a compare and contrast thing, Horsham v Brighton. The men were not named in either the Horsham or the Brighton papers, until the time they were arrested. Urban Brighton was a lot more "hard line" than rural Horsham.

Horsham men were mostly "Alternativists" and able to do agricultural work instead of joining the army.

Brighton had its own branch of the N-CF, mostly the "Peace Artists" from the Art College and members of TUs from the LB&SC Railway Workshops. Fair numbers of Brighton and Hove men were "Absolutists" doing hard labour on bread and water. Two died, one in prison and the other shortly after his release from the army.

This last man was an artist, of Quaker origin, called Royle "Roy" Richmond. Roy had advanced heart disease and was just about housebound. He insisted on his right to conscientious objection but still ended up arrested and in the army. He collapsed before he had the chance to disobey an order, and spent all but the first day of his service in a military hospital waiting for his papers to catch up with him in order to be discharged.

He was "well connected". The woman that he was engaged to took over as joint editor of "The Tribunal" after Bertrand Russell was jailed. His mother, Kathryn Richmond, has been credited with thinking up the White Peace Poppy.

Self portrait of Roy Richmond who died in 1916. IIRC he was 26.