24 replies to this topic

[Trench_gun]

hi,

I've had a single medal from Great grandmother for her father that was KIA in 1918 whilst serving the 10th Bat Lancashire fusiliers from July 1915.

here,s the odd bit......

After his death - only one medal was sent back to his family - a British war medal - However, this particular medal possesses the ribbon of the Victory medal......

the medal is 100% original and has not been messed with

I have checked his medal card and it states that he was issued the War medal but on the card where the victory medal is- there is only a few forward slash lines

I take this to mean that he wasn't warranting a Victory medal but why was he issued the ribbon....mistake?............common practice?.................. no idea!


can anyone shed any light on this????????.....mind you, if I'm being a complete newbie please forgive the ignorance!

[welshdoc]

If he served from 1915 abroad in a theatre of action and was killed in action in 1918  he would have been awarded a a 14-15 star BWM and victory . The star and the other 2 medals may have been sent seperately but they would have been sent with the correct ribbons . otherwise if killed in action in France/ Flanders (rather than died say in India) he would have a BWM and victory.

[Trench_gun]

welshdoc, on 11 February 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

If he was killed in action in 1915  he would have been awarded a 1914 0r 14-15 star BWM and victory . The star and the other 2 medals may have been sent seperately but they would have been sent with the correct ribbons .

No, he was out in France from July 1915 and KIA August 31st 1918

Card only mentions one medal!

[SteveE]

Without seeing the card, his name and service number would be useful, I would assume the "few forward slash lines" are actually ditto marks and that he was awarded the Victory Medal too.  

If he served overseas in 1915 then he would have been entitled to the 1914/1915 Star as well, there may be a separate card for that though.

Regards

Steve

[80th division]

The Star might be on a seperate MIC.

I have seen medals where the ribbons are mixed up, but always assumed this was done by the recipient or another family member, not when it was sent out.

Joseph

[Trench_gun]

SteveE, on 11 February 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Without seeing the card, his name and service number would be useful, but I would assume the "few forward slash lines" are actually ditto marks and that he was awarded the Victory Medal too.

Regards

Steve

private Daniel Deegan 38008 - ive got my other GG grandafathers card and that clearly says ditto - this jus has a forward slash - like on computer key

He was out there in 1915...........why no star I wonder?

[SteveE]

Trench_gun, on 11 February 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

private Daniel Deegan 38008 - ive got my other GG grandafathers card and that clearly says ditto - this jus has a forward slash - like on computer key

He was out there in 1915...........why no star I wonder?

Card clearly shows ditto marks, he was definitely awarded the pair.

Steve

[Trench_gun]

SteveE, on 11 February 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Card clearly shows ditto marks, he was definitely awarded the pair.

Steve

really? wow....thats a turn up - I guess Ive got to look for a replacement victory medal then? ...........

I have letter from him in france during 1915...........where can I find if he was to get the star?

cheers everyone for the help so far!

[80th division]

Trench_gun, on 11 February 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

really? wow....thats a turn up - I guess Ive got to look for a replacement victory medal then? ...........

I have letter from him in france during 1915...........where can I find if he was to get the star?

cheers everyone for the help so far!

Don't forget that you will need a correct BWM ribbon as well.

[Trench_gun]

oh yes lol.  this has made my day! thanks everyone

any ideas over a 1915 star?

[munster]

Trench_gun, on 11 February 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

really? wow....thats a turn up - I guess Ive got to look for a replacement victory medal then? ...........

I have letter from him in france during 1915...........where can I find if he was to get the star?

cheers everyone for the help so far!

There are no official medals being issued any longer for WW1 but i beleive replicas can be purchased.john

[rkirb5]

Hi

Sorry he cant have been in a theatre of war before 1916 as there is no mention of a star on his MIC, only the pair.
See- http://www.1914-1918...grandad/mic.htm
and http://www.1914-1918...d/themedals.htm

He may have joined up in 1915 but did not go overseas until 1916.
Here is a bit on the regiment- http://www.1914-1918.net/lancsfus.htm
to find which battalion you need to look up the war diary, that is what the MIC refers to
http://www.1914-1918.net/records.html
regards

Robert

[Trench_gun]

rkirb5, on 11 February 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Hi

Sorry he cant have been in a theatre of war before 1916 as there is no mention of a star on his MIC, only the pair.
See- http://www.1914-1918...grandad/mic.htm
and http://www.1914-1918...d/themedals.htm

He may have joined up in 1915 but did not go overseas until 1916.
Here is a bit on the regiment- http://www.1914-1918.net/lancsfus.htm
to find which battalion you need to look up the war diary, that is what the MIC refers to
http://www.1914-1918.net/records.html
regards

Robert

robert -= thanks for finding that out for me much appreciated!

thing is he DEFINATLEY was in france during 1915 - I know this because I have letters sent home from the front by him all dated mid/late 1915

Also, He was in the 10th Battalion, 'B' Coy of the L.F which landed in France 1915.

where is that star?!?!?!? lol

[ss002d6252]

Quote

Name: Daniel Deegan
Birth Place: Farnworth, Lancs
Death Date: 31 Aug 1918
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Bury, Lancs
Rank: Private
Regiment: Lancashire Fusiliers
Battalion: 10th Battalion
Number: 38008
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

[ss002d6252]

Ive got to say that I looked at a few numbers around that of Daniel's and they all seem to only for the BWM/VM pair. I have a feeling that the number range is generally too late for a man under this number to have been in France in 1915 however its possible he has another number .

Is there any identifying information in the letters that may help ?

[charles222]

munster, on 11 February 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

There are no official medals being issued any longer for WW1 but i beleive replicas can be purchased.john

Kia ora from NZ .I had to get a replica 14,15 star for my g/fathers set ,also  i got new ribbons for the  Vic, BWM. I got these  from Australia .The only other way to make the set is to buy a second hand medal,  to make   the set, but they  will have some one elses name on them. The new ones are blank and can be engraved for extra cost. Second hand start at  $70NZ .up. here in NZ. Cheers  Charles

[khaki]

Hi trench-gun, Here's a quick suggestion that may save you some time and money. if you are thinking of obtaining replacement or even replica medals, you may wish to consider original miniatures BWM & VICT. They would look great in a frame with a photograph.
regards
khaki

[rkirb5]

Hi

The only other Daniel Deegan I can find is this one-
http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=2
He has a trio but wrong regiment and he was renumbered so must have been in a territorial battalion. Funny enough his MICD does say deceased, just that no date. Entered France 3/5/15
SDGW says-
Birth Place:Edge Hill, LiverpoolResidence:LiverpoolDeath Date:8 Aug 1916Death Location:France & FlandersEnlistment Location:LiverpoolRank:PrivateRegiment:King's (Liverpool Regiment)Battalion:8th BattalionNumber:305112Type of Casualty:Killed in actionTheatre of War:Western European Theatre

I can see no service records for either and there are no other Daniel Deegan's
No other D Deegans either so are you able to scan and post the documents you have?
They may give us a clue

regards

Robert

[Trench_gun]

rkirb5, on 12 February 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

Hi

The only other Daniel Deegan I can find is this one-
http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=2
He has a trio but wrong regiment and he was renumbered so must have been in a territorial battalion. Funny enough his MICD does say deceased, just that no date. Entered France 3/5/15
SDGW says-
Birth Place:Edge Hill, LiverpoolResidence:LiverpoolDeath Date:8 Aug 1916Death Location:France & FlandersEnlistment Location:LiverpoolRank:PrivateRegiment:King's (Liverpool Regiment)Battalion:8th BattalionNumber:305112Type of Casualty:Killed in actionTheatre of War:Western European Theatre

I can see no service records for either and there are no other Daniel Deegan's
No other D Deegans either so are you able to scan and post the documents you have?
They may give us a clue

regards

Robert

I've been trying to upload a few pics but it doesn't seem to want to work - anyways - he's definatley Deegan 38008 from Bury,

As for the letters I only have a couple - and they seem to mainly mention things about home (suppose he didnt want to say much about the war)

however, he does complain to his wife that due to being out trench digging all night and getting wet and cold - his arm is giving him some jip......lol

he mentions  not too much excitement going on at the moment only that "i have put down for a new trench gun, tell you more when I come.

letter dated 6/11/1915

I also Have two photographs - one with I suppose a unit of 8-9 men in uniform - some holding stripper clips of .303 - two others holding Enfields.

The other photo shows around 15 chaps together sat outside a barrack block in civy's (must be before training) - with two nco's either side

would anyone have a better idea with the pics???? if i get the chance to stick them on i will, but computer says no atm....

cheers guys

[munster]

I looked at this last night and found other numbers around Daniels but whilst 38009 joined in april 1916 38057 joined 1914
with original number i think 1008 and was renumbered.Your relative could be renumbered.The vast majority of similar numbers i came across were issued dec 15 - jan 16.john

[Trench_gun]

munster, on 12 February 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I looked at this last night and found other numbers around Daniels but whilst 38009 joined in april 1916 38057 joined 1914
with original number i think 1008 and was renumbered.Your relative could be renumbered.The vast majority of similar numbers i came across were issued dec 15 - jan 16.john

John,
           Thanks for that - i've got in contact with my uncle who remembers more about the medals whilst they were in the care of my g,grandmother

apparently - there were 3 medals in total - one given to a sibling living in Bury - a gold circular one (victory medal) and one of the remaining two was lost.

he described the one lost medal, without any prompt from me, as (he's no idea with ww1 stuff) a star shaped medal with blue/red/white ribbon

It just annoys me that I cant support the fact Private 38008 Daniel Deegan officaly had this medal

[BillyH]

My great uncle was awarded the 1914 Star, plus the Victory and BWM  -  I have always had two of them but unfortunately the 1914 Star was lost before I came on the scene.
I later got the death plaque from his niece and wanted to frame the 3 medals together with his death plaque so I bought a replica 1914 Star, and excellent quality it is too - so I can thoroughly recommend the following company that I used :-
http://www.egframes....ex.php?cPath=14

Maybe it's just me but I don't think it's right to buy a genuine medal with someone elses name on it for the purpose of framing?  I think my great uncle would be happier with the copy in the frame rather than one with someone elses name on it - perhaps i'm too sentimental though!

BillyH

[LST_164]

Just a thought,
I believe it isn't unknown for a man to have more than one MIC card; nor for that matter for some cards in the main set to be missing / mis-indexed.

You could try looking up the Lancs. Fusiliers' 1914-15 Star Roll (the original, for which the MIC cards are just index cards) at the National Archives.  See if there's a Deegan, D amongst the recipients - if so it should go a long way towards  proving that one was issued to his family.  

I can empathise with your frustration as regards the lack of evidence.  Some years ago I was asked to look up a soldier who according to his family never received his WW1 medals.  They even quoted his battalion & number, and the fact he was attached to Trench-Mortars.  The NA's relevant Roll for the BWM/VIC pair was blank where his name & number should have been. No issue?  Yet I also located at the National Library of Wales - something unknown to the family - an original letter from him in France October 1918, with absolutely correct unit/TMB details etc.  So there was evidence he had qualified for the medals whatever the Roll might say!

Clive

[80th division]

There is a photo of his grave online, you may have seen this.

http://twgpp.org/inf....php?id=2431958

It lists his age as 42, is it possible he was in the regiment before the war?

[Trench_gun]

80th division, on 12 February 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

There is a photo of his grave online, you may have seen this.

http://twgpp.org/inf....php?id=2431958

It lists his age as 42, is it possible he was in the regiment before the war?

No, he was a bricklayer before the war - 10th batt were a regiment of volunteers? If i'm correct?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys - I think I'll do what Clive says and thats research the Lanc fusiliers 1914-15 medal roll - hopefully i'll get some sense there!!!!!

I think once ..........if I get proof i'll go down the licenced copy route rather than somone elses medals to be fair as BillyH says

thanks for the help peeps!