23 replies to this topic

[havoc5]

Hello there,

I had these Wire cutters left to me by my Great Uncle along with his medals. Would someone be able to shed any light on them please?

I think I have found out a few things so far. I am aware they are British as have the Crow Stamp. Am I right in saying they are a copy of the French version? They are dated 1917 and have the makers stamp of Chaterlea Ltd.
My Great uncle was a Sgt in the Royal Artillery. They do show some heavy use, this was almost certainly from his time over there as they were stored away on his return apparantly. They are still fully functioning and the action is very smooth still.

Enjoy the photos.

Cheers,

Havoc.  P4123994.JPG   62.02K   2 downloads

[khaki]

Hi Havoc,

looks like you have a nice pair of wire cutters, one of the many designs used by the BEF, very similar to the French design and I also think that US forces also used that style. Chaterlea was a well known brand/maker
.It seems to be normal to see heavy use especially with the cutting edges. I think the German wire was of a very heavy gauge. Thanks for the photograph, would be nice to see the medals with your G/uncle's photo if available.Do you know much about his service.?
khaki

[havoc5]

khaki, on 12 April 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

Hi Havoc,

looks like you have a nice pair of wire cutters, one of the many designs used by the BEF, very similar to the French design and I also think that US forces also used that style. Chaterlea was a well known brand/maker
.It seems to be normal to see heavy use especially with the cutting edges. I think the German wire was of a very heavy gauge. Thanks for the photograph, would be nice to see the medals with your G/uncle's photo if available.Do you know much about his service.?
khaki

Hi Khaki,

I dont know a hell of a lot about him, Im sure he was a Sgt in the Artillery from what I remember. Most of the medals are stamped with his name,number and rank. One that I remember is he has the Passendale Star. I will get some pics soon and post them up. Would like to find out more about his service.

Cheers,

Havoc.

[khaki]

Hello Havoc.

I think the 'star' medal you refer to is either the 1914 star or the 1914/15 star.,in the case of the former it is often referred to unofficially as the "Mons Star', if it is the 1914 star it should have included on the obverse the year 1914 and the months august to november.

khaki

[havoc5]

khaki, on 12 April 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Hello Havoc.

I think the 'star' medal you refer to is either the 1914 star or the 1914/15 star.,in the case of the former it is often referred to unofficially as the "Mons Star', if it is the 1914 star it should have included on the obverse the year 1914 and the months august to november.

khaki

Hello khaki,
it is most certainly the Passendale star. Its written across the front of it if memory serves me correct. I will dig them out and post some photos.

All the best,

Havoc.

[khaki]

Hi Havoc,
It's a new one on me, however I am no expert but I don't recall seeing one in any of my books,
I will look forward to seeing what you have.

khaki

[havoc5]

khaki, on 13 April 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

Hi Havoc,
It's a new one on me, however I am no expert but I don't recall seeing one in any of my books,
I will look forward to seeing what you have.

khaki

Hi Khaki,


You have me thinking now, will pop along to my Dads and get them tomorrow. I know there are six medals in all from what I can remember.


All the best,


Clive.

[Blackblue]

Maybe a commemorative medal Clive,
There was no such official medal as a Passchendaele Star.

Rgds

Tim

[havoc5]

Blackblue, on 14 April 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Maybe a commemorative medal Clive,
There was no such official medal as a Passchendaele Star.

Rgds

Tim

Hello Tim,

Could well be right, im no expert at all on this era. Im more into my WW2 Ordnance, so any info is gratefully recieved. I will post the photos later on if I can get them from my Dads.

Regards,

Clive.

[havoc5]

Blackblue, on 14 April 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Maybe a commemorative medal Clive,
There was no such official medal as a Passchendaele Star.

Rgds

Tim

Hello all,

Ok I have got the medals. My mistake, and I havnt  a clue where I got Passendale from !!
Please see the medals below....

His name was J Wise and his service number was 141858. Now this is the strange bit, two of the medals has this number and his rank of Gunner. The third (Long service and good conduct) Regular Army medal is when he was promoted to Sgt and his number seems to change to 1418879, can anyone explain this for me?

The Other medals I have that came from My Aunt are what they were given by someone else for my brother.

These medals have the 1914-15 Star given to Pte S Dale, ASC. M2 019847

WW2 Medal,

The other Great War Civilisation given to Pte, D Fresco, Royal Fus. J1489.

Thats where I think I got confused. These were no relations to me but would like to know more about them., P4144007.JPG

Regards,

Clive.

havoc5, on 14 April 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Hello all,

Ok I have got the medals. My mistake, and I havnt  a clue where I got Passendale from !!
Please see the medals below....

His name was J Wise and his service number was 141858. Now this is the strange bit, two of the medals has this number and his rank of Gunner. The third (Long service and good conduct) Regular Army medal is when he was promoted to Sgt and his number seems to change to 1418879, can anyone explain this for me?

The Other medals I have that came from My Aunt are what they were given by someone else for my brother.

These medals have the 1914-15 Star given to Pte S Dale, ASC. M2 019847

WW2 Medal,

The other Great War Civilisation given to Pte, D Fresco, Royal Fus. J1489.

Thats where I think I got confused. These were no relations to me but would like to know more about them., P4144007.JPG

Regards,

Clive.

Heres the other group, Im sure one of the ribbons are wrong as well but not sure what one.  P4144008.JPG   53.01K   0 downloads

Attached Files

•  P4144007.JPG   58.35K   3 downloads

[THE SHINY SEVENTH]

Hi Clive, nothing wrong with the ribbons, nice little collection, regards Sean

[havoc5]

spconnolly007, on 14 April 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Hi Clive, nothing wrong with the ribbons, nice little collection, regards Sean

Thanks Sean,

Going to post up my Great Grandfathers medals and service record when I can find my other camera lead. He has a massive Naval service and was Lord Beattie's chaffeur during his service.

Thanks again,

Clive

[THE SHINY SEVENTH]

Sounds interesting Clive, just dont post them on here, make sure you put them in the right catagory to get maximum appreciation, regards Sean

[havoc5]

spconnolly007, on 14 April 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Sounds interesting Clive, just dont post them on here, make sure you put them in the right catagory to get maximum appreciation, regards Sean

Will do Sean, I have the lead so about to post in the Naval section.

[Blackblue]

Hi Clive,
It appears your Grandfather James Wise started active service after January 1916 as he did not receive a star. He was awarded the British War Medal and Victory Medal and was a Gunner in the Royal Garrison Artillery. This information is obtained from the Medal Index Cards. The Long Service and Good Conduct Medal and his number 1418879 likely means he stayed in the Army post war. If that is the case his Service Papers ate likely to survive and you should be able to get a copy by writing to the Ministry of Defence. Nothing much else we can glean from the medals I am afraid. Unless the RGA number is a Territorial one (which I doubt) you won't be able to link him to a unit at this time. Hopefully his service papers are at MOD.

Rgds

Tim D

[havoc5]

Blackblue, on 14 April 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Hi Clive,
It appears your Grandfather James Wise started active service after January 1916 as he did not receive a star. He was awarded the British War Medal and Victory Medal and was a Gunner in the Royal Garrison Artillery. This information is obtained from the Medal Index Cards. The Long Service and Good Conduct Medal and his number 1418879 likely means he stayed in the Army post war. If that is the case his Service Papers ate likely to survive and you should be able to get a copy by writing to the Ministry of Defence. Nothing much else we can glean from the medals I am afraid. Unless the RGA number is a Territorial one (which I doubt) you won't be able to link him to a unit at this time. Hopefully his service papers are at MOD.

Rgds

Tim D

Thats Great Tim !! Thank you very much for the info. I will try and obtain some more from the Mod.

Best regards,

Clive.

[Blackblue]

Stanley Dale went to France on 30 November 1914 as a Private in the Army Service Corps with the number M2/019847. We was awarded the 1914/15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal and was discharged as a Sergeant to the Class Z Reserve at the wars end. The number prefix M2 means that he was assigned to Mechanical Transport. No Service Papers appear to have survived and this information is from his Medal Index Card.

Rgds

Tim D

MoD link here.

http://www.mod.uk/De...dsEnquiries.htm

Rgds

Tim

[Blackblue]

David Fresco was a Private in the Royal Fusiliers and was awarded the British War Medal and Victory Medal meaning he went on active service after January 1916. The J prefix means that he was a member of one of the 38th, 39th or 40th (Jewish) Battalions.

Jewish Legion here:
http://en.wikipedia....i/Jewish_Legion

Look down the list here:
http://www.1914-1918.net/royalfus.htm

Rgds

Tim D

[havoc5]

Blackblue, on 14 April 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

David Fresco was a Private in the Royal Fusiliers and was awarded the British War Medal and Victory Medal meaning he went on active service after January 1916. The J prefix means that he was a member of one of the 38th, 39th or 40th (Jewish) Battalions.

Jewish Legion here:
http://en.wikipedia....i/Jewish_Legion

Look down the list here:
http://www.1914-1918.net/royalfus.htm

Rgds

Tim D

Tim thats great, Thanks a milion for all the info. I had no idea at all about them. i will have to look further into them. Extremley interesting !!

[Blackblue]

This is the site's bible for researchers:

http://www.1914-1918...dad/grandad.htm

Tim

[khaki]

havoc5, on 14 April 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Hello all,

Ok I have got the medals. My mistake, and I haven't  a clue where I got Passendale from !

Regards,

Clive.

If he was involved in the battle of Passchendaele and it is likely that he was, he may have referred to the silver War Medal as his "Passchendaele Medal" indicating to his family what meaning it had for him and subsequently so would have his family.

khaki

[havoc5]

khaki, on 15 April 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

If he was involved in the battle of Passchendaele and it is likely that he was, he may have referred to the silver War Medal as his "Passchendaele Medal" indicating to his family what meaning it had for him and subsequently so would have his family.

khaki

Thats quite possible Khaki. Is there any way I can find out what battles he served in?

[khaki]

I am not experienced in research of individuals, but at least you have the basics, ie., name rank serial number and corps, if you can isolate his unit through his army records you may be well on the way by a process of 'research of individual unit battle history' to at least increase the likelyhood of his presence at any locale on a specific date or dates. If his personal records show that he was wounded it would of course assist further.

There are many others,  including the "forum" itself that will give you much assistance.

Good luck

khaki

[havoc5]

khaki, on 15 April 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

I am not experienced in research of individuals, but at least you have the basics, ie., name rank serial number and corps, if you can isolate his unit through his army records you may be well on the way by a process of 'research of individual unit battle history' to at least increase the likelyhood of his presence at any locale on a specific date or dates. If his personal records show that he was wounded it would of course assist further.

There are many others,  including the "forum" itself that will give you much assistance.

Good luck

khaki

Cheers Khaki once again. I will try and look into it.

Regards,

Clive