31 replies to this topic

[4thGordons]

Not generally in front line service in 1914 but certainly what much of the BEF had trained with and still in service with TF battalions in the immediate pre war era.

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As you can see it has New Zealand ownership marks and what may be a unit mark 1/HG
The upper handguard is a reshaped MkIII handguard and therefore not original but may have been a later service replacement (or a post service "completion")
Unfortunately the bore is very worn, to the extent that I think I would hesitate to shoot it - but I will clean and see.

Chris

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[shippingsteel]

Very nice rifle - but I'm a little disappointed you didn't have something really interesting to show us (just kidding), well done.!
I particularly like the sold out of service marking stamped on the barrel - now what an impressive looking mark that is ...

Cheers, S>S

[shippingsteel]

4thGordons, on 11 April 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

As you can see it has New Zealand ownership marks and what may be a unit mark 1/HG

It's such a nice looking rifle I thought it was deserving of a little research into that unit mark. The NZ stamp and date obviously makes it a Boer War candidate.
Which is good as the possibilities are limited - the New Zealand contingents were predominantly made up of companies of Mounted Rifles, with one exception.
Together with the Mounted Rifle troops they also raised just the single Hotchkiss Gun detachment, which was their early type of 'machine-gun' artillery support.

In my google searches this small unit features quite a bit, especially in period documents. The Kiwis must have been considerably proud of their fledgling MG's.!
Any search comprising "New Zealand, Hotchkiss Gun, and Boer War" will bring up plenty of references to plow through. Hope you find this information of interest.

Cheers, S>S

[viking_raid]

Nice rifle.

Here are a few of mine.

Our boys here in Newfoundland pre-WW1 trained with the 'Lee Speed' rifle, which is basically a commerical version of the Long Lee that was common in the colonial areas like Newfoundland, (3rd gun down). Also the Martini Henry Artillery Carbine was used for pre-WW1 training, WW1 era para-military groups etc. (gun at the bottom)

cheers

[TonyE]

Chris - you have seen these pics of my 1902 Enfield Mark I* before, but I thought I would post them again. They are only quick snaps, nothing like as professional as your own fine pictures!

It has a dark but good bore and shoots very well all things considered. I shall be taking it to Bisley next week for another outing.

Cheers
TonyE

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[4thGordons]

TonyE, on 11 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Chris - you have seen these pics of my 1902 Enfield Mark I* before, but I thought I would post them again. They are only quick snaps, nothing like as professional as your own fine pictures!

It has a dark but good bore and shoots very well all things considered. I shall be taking it to Bisley next week for another outing.
Cheers
TonyE

Hi Tony
You know I had forgotten you had that! Nice that it is shootable. My other one is in really great shooting condition but has had about 1/2 inch cut off the end of the barrel and been professionally recrowned - I think it was probably used for target shooting by the previous owner. It doesn't feed spitzer bullets very well making me think it is set up for MkVI rounds.
I will see how this one cleans up but the rifling is very shallow.
Hope you had a good trip - sorry I missed you!
Chris

[TonyE]

No worries, there is always next year! I might even take an extra day to have alook through your shed!

I will let you know how the shoot goes next week.

Cheers
TonyE

[sawdoc34]

Chris, that surely is a thing of great beauty my friend, you got a real nice 1 there mate
Thanks for sharing it with us,
Aleck

[4thGordons]

Another one followed me home.....

Again NZ marked but this is a BSA Co "commercial" action. The bore on this one is really excellent. General overall condition is nice although there is a crack (shallow/stable) in the right side of the butt.
Another MkI* without provision for the clearing rod.

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and the two together

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[smleenfield]

Here are a few of my Long Lee's.


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[4thGordons]

That Metford looks like an excellent example - what mark is it?
Chris

[smleenfield]

4thGordons, on 01 July 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

That Metford looks like an excellent example - what mark is it?
Chris

It was upgraded to a MkII bolt but is still in the original 8 shot straight box magazine configuration. The butt disk is marked for the Victorian Volunteer Yeomanry from  Western Australia.

[4thGordons]

smleenfield, on 01 July 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

It was upgraded to a MkII bolt but is still in the original 8 shot straight box magazine configuration. The butt disk is marked for the Victorian Volunteer Yeomanry from  Western Australia.

Thanks - it is an interesting mix isn't it. What is stamped on the wrist? 1889 is a nice early date so I assume it is stamped MkI?
It was the butt disc and sling swivel on the butt (along with the safety) that caught my attention - those are usually associated with the MkI* (marker disc) and MkII(sling swivel) and MkII*(bolt safety)
Does it have the earlier or later pattern rear sight? / volley sight?

Chris

[smleenfield]

4thGordons, on 01 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Thanks - it is an interesting mix isn't it. What is stamped on the wrist? 1889 is a nice early date so I assume it is stamped MkI?
It was the butt disc and sling swivel on the butt (along with the safety) that caught my attention - those are usually associated with the MkI* (marker disc) and MkII(sling swivel) and MkII*(bolt safety)
Does it have the earlier or later pattern rear sight? / volley sight?

Chris

Considering how old this is you can be sure it is not in exactly the condition it was originally produced in. Overall I would say it is a combination of MkI, MkI*, and MkII*. The buttstock looks to have had some sanding done to the wrist area and some of the parts were upgraded. Not to surprising for something from TF units. I'm sure that as something better came along they just went with it.  The person I bought it from said it was completely shot out because the rifling was "totally" rounded off. Guess he has never heard of Metford rifling. The bore is real pristine and the headspace is still tight. The nose cap is the two piece type with the separate band which is very rare to find. It was never upgraded to the ten round magazine and still uses the eight round straight line magazine. It has the early style sight and the volley sights are intact. Both the barrel and receiver are made by BSA and appear to be original to each other.  While it is not a perfect example, there are enough of the very early features that makes it a prize piece in my collection.

[RobL]

All CLLE's i've seen have protecting 'ears' for the front sight - is this a feature unique to CLLE's, and why do only the CLLE's have them fitted and not
Mk I or Mk I*'s retrospectively fitted?

[4thGordons]

No, not all CLLEs have the ears fitted. For example I have an India Pattern CLLE (CLLE MkI IP actually approved for Indian Service in 1905) which does not have the ears. CLLE MkIs do not either
CLLE MkI* (approved 1908) do.

The reason for the protectors is that the blade of the foresight on the later CLLE (and later SMLE) is "adjustable" [by an armourer] There is a blade on a wedge shaped block which can be driven left and right with a drift) This was not possible on the earlier rifles where the forsight was fixed and braised to the barrel. The possibility of the foresight moving if banged meant that protecting "ears" were added.  There were also CLLMetfords (I have never actually seen a real one!) and these also have adjustable foresights and ears - but the ears are slightly different (and marked with an M) because those for the CLLE (marked with an E) had to allow for more offset. If you look at Lee-Enfields you will often find the foresight is noticelable off centre.

Some of the earlier patterns of .22 trainer like the .22short rifle MkI also had these protectors fitted (these are marked .22)


Chris

Edit: found a couple of pics on my drive

CLLE I IP
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The fixed sight on a MLE MkI*
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The protectors on a .22 rifle
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[smleenfield]

I'm sure a lot of the sight protectors just flat out were lost over the years also.

[Captain G.]

Here are my two CLLE's. Both were converted to CLLE at Vickers Sons & Maxim in 1909. The Clearing Rods are exact reproductions that I had made and put in the empty rod channels because they looked wanting. The rifle with the stenciling on the stock has just been sold and is going out via UPS tomorrow. The buyer has indicated that he wants to buy the other CLLE as well, so it too will be shipped out to him soon. Both have original Mk III oilers (1899-1906) and pull through's in the butts. The bottom rifle is stamped on the butt plate tang with "25 LD" for the 25th London Regiment. Whether the 25th City of London or the 25th County of London, I'm not sure.    Fred

[Captain G.]

[4thGordons]

Captain G., on 12 July 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

The buyer has indicated that he wants to buy the other CLLE as well, so it too will be shipped out to him soon.

Grrrr.... wish I had known these were on the market!
Oh well - probably wouldn't have got enough for my soul anyway..... missed out on a Metford last week too.
But did get hold of a nice Martini-Enfield
Chris

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Captain G,
2 excellent rifles, I am sure the buyer will be delighted to have them.
There is something special about the Long Lee rifle.
Regards,
LF

[Captain G.]

There's something special indeed! Fred

[Captain G.]

here's another rifle that the same gentleman bought from me a few weeks ago. He's a fine, fine Englishman who is now living in The States. This rifle was made by LSA. It still retains its original Clearing Rod. This rifle was meant to be used in competition on the target ranges. My eye's can no longer focus on rifle sights and so I decided to pass the rifle's on to someone with better vision!    Fred

[Captain G.]

I think that the gentleman will have a lot of fun owning these rifles! I know that I sure did!    Fred

[Captain G.]