352 replies to this topic

[sotonmate]

18th Battalion, on 31 January 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

Sotonmate

I gather from what you've written above, that you believe the seal to be genuine?

Good to know that I might not have bought a jar with a faked seal after all!

Paul

18Bn

Good grief,how did you interpret it that clearly ? I am saying that your seal is bereft of clarity and somewhat Heath-Robinson in execution,and that genuine seals should ordinarily have more definition and probably an ID code for the packing Depot. It is of course POSSIBLE that somewhere in the genuine system such a seal was used,who can say.
Somewhere here someone suggested contact with the IWM ? There may be examples to show and to give you a more positive answer.

Sotonmate

[johnreed]

Reading through the interesting posts on SRD jars, I will share with you a fact that while I was an RQMS (Boots and Socks) Maint. in Germany in the first part of the eightie. Under my charge was the WMR Rations 5 days worth included with these were the Rum Ration. One of the jars had a broken seal and a loose cork and had lost some of the rum, I was due a stocktake so i re-corked the jar after topping it up reapplied sealing wax and used an RA Greatcoat button as a die to impress the wax. Stocktake done everybody happy with the result, by the way I hate rum.

John

[18th Battalion]

sotonmate, on 02 February 2011 - 11:57 AM, said:

18Bn

Good grief,how did you interpret it that clearly ? I am saying that your seal is bereft of clarity and somewhat Heath-Robinson in execution,and that genuine seals should ordinarily have more definition and probably an ID code for the packing Depot. It is of course POSSIBLE that somewhere in the genuine system such a seal was used,who can say.
Somewhere here someone suggested contact with the IWM ? There may be examples to show and to give you a more positive answer.

Sotonmate

It seems the satire of your reply went right over my head and I took it at face value: I will await a possible response from the IWM and regard the seal as most likely a fake, at least you will have now restored Mick's confidence in his judgement.

[sotonmate]

18Bn

My "satire" is a writing style not always intended as that ! However,I will tell it as it is. Mick doesn't need me to restore his confidence !
One other thing occurred to me today. When "our" wax was applied it was bright and ranging from red to maroon,dependant upon the wax supplier's batch colour. Over time the shading got duller and had less lustre. Your photo shows wax with quite a fresh lustre,which,if it had been applied 90-95 years ago,has kept remarkably well.THe colour would of course depend  upon where the jar lived in the intervening years.
Whatever the solution,you have a splendid Rum Jar,looking as it would,unequivocally of the wartime era,and one which you can muse over and wonder where it might have been in it's time,and who it might have fortified prior to action !
Happy Collecting !

Sotonmate

[Gunner Bailey]

Apologies for being away from my own thread. However the chaps have kept it alive and well. Many thanks. For info I've been up to the neck in work and took two weeks in Cornwall for a break!

I've never seen a jar with a complete seal only odd bits attached to corks. I do have a jar with a cork stuck in and something slopping around inside but I'll leave it closed. No sign of wax on it though.

I think Mick is right to be sceptical about the seal as I'd have expected and real seal to have a number impressed showing how or where it was sealed. Standard sort of quality control process?

John

[patje70]

I've just picked up a glass one

the second one

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[Gunner Bailey]

patje70, on 06 March 2011 - 11:46 AM, said:

I've just picked up a glass one

the second one

Very nice too. I've not got a glass one and would love to get one in my collection.

Is your other one brown as well? I have seen a clear one.

Well done - a great find.

John

[patje70]

Hello
I have only one and I didn't wait long enough between the two pictures, thats why it says "the second one".
It was only to let see the marking.
Kind regards
Pat

[auchonvillerssomme]

John I found another half gallon SRD today, 8 quid so I had to have it, made by Pearson, do we have any other makers for the half gallon? I did pass up a WD marked corkscrew though.

There have been a couple of threads and there used to be a website showing a variety of glass bottles marked SRD are we 100% confident they are 'the' SRD?

Mick

[Gunner Bailey]

auchonvillerssomme, on 13 April 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

John I found another half gallon SRD today, 8 quid so I had to have it, made by Pearson, do we have any other makers for the half gallon? I did pass up a WD marked corkscrew though.

There have been a couple of threads and there used to be a website showing a variety of glass bottles marked SRD are we 100% confident they are 'the' SRD?

Mick

Hi Mick

I've got half gallon jars by:

Robinson's Leeds
Lovatts Ltd
Pearson
Price - Bristol
and one other still to be identied positively (see way back in thread)

£8 is a bargain - well done.

John

[auchonvillerssomme]

It was alongside a 1 gallon Bourne & Son 1945 also for 8 quid but I really don't have the room for any more doubles. They were in a general saleroom in Yorkshire which throws up the occassional bargain. I have never met the dealer but if he lets them go at that price I'm wondering where he found them.

[Gunner Bailey]

auchonvillerssomme, on 14 April 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

It was alongside a 1 gallon Bourne & Son 1945 also for 8 quid but I really don't have the room for any more doubles. They were in a general saleroom in Yorkshire which throws up the occassional bargain. I have never met the dealer but if he lets them go at that price I'm wondering where he found them.

You should have bought both and sold the other one. That way you would probably have got the half gallon free! Is that the cockney in me?

John

[auchonvillerssomme]

Unfortunatley I was severly handicapped, Trish was with me.

[Keith Roberts]

Returned to the thread after a long absence having acquired a jar by Gibbs & Canning Ltd  Tamworth  at a rederie in Miromont  on Sunday shortly before I had to rush home for an eye operation.

I'm just wondering, as we have such a wealth of information here, would there be an option of emulating the War diaries thread, by inserting a list of identified manufacturers in post one or two by amending it, and providing an occasional update.

I'm in the process of retiring, and once my eye has fully recovered could probably devote a few hours to producing a list  so far as a started under headings

Size   manufacturer post with first mention   non-standard (ie glass)

The list would need to be inserted by Gunner Bailey I suppose as the thread starter.

Any thoughts?

keith

[auchonvillerssomme]

I produced a list further back on the thread.

Barker Pottery Chesterfield
Batesons
Bourne Denby
F Brayne & Co Ltd London
Buchan Portobello Edinburgh
W Buchan & Co Potteries Portobello Midlothian
G Carder & Sons Leys Pottery Brierley Hill
Caledonian Rutherglew
Covancroft Pottery co Ltd Glasgow
Doulton & Co Ltd Lambeth
Fossil Pottery Glasgow
Fulham Pottery
Gibbs Canning Ltd Tamworth
Grosvenor Glasgow
Hunts Patent Liverpool
Kennedy Barrowfield Potteries Glasgow
Lovatts Langley Ware England
Moira Pottery Co Ltd
Price Bristol
C Phillips & Son Castleford
James Pearson Ltd Chesterfield
Pearson & Co The Potteries Whittington Moor nr Chesterfield
The Pottery Fulham London
Robinson Jack Lane Pottery Leeds
Skey Tamworth
Port Dundas Pottery Co Glasgow
E Potter Whittington Moor nr Chesterfield
Wallace Belfast
E Wright & Co Ltd Chesterfield

Mick

[Keith Roberts]

Whoops, sorry Mick, I didn't realise that you had done the work already.

Keith

[auchonvillerssomme]

Thats ok, not sure whether it is complete though.

Re: Bourne, on another site which I have obviously now lost, there is reference to a Bourne jar (not SRD) marked BOURNE 1 and there was an implication that the '1' referenced a specific date, can anyone confirm if that is true and if so what are the date marks?

Mick

[Gunner Bailey]

auchonvillerssomme, on 06 May 2011 - 06:01 AM, said:

Thats ok, not sure whether it is complete though.

Re: Bourne, on another site which I have obviously now lost, there is reference to a Bourne jar (not SRD) marked BOURNE 1 and there was an implication that the '1' referenced a specific date, can anyone confirm if that is true and if so what are the date marks?

Mick

Hi Mick, Keith

Sorry, but I've been very busy this week and have been away from the forum. I have a list on a spreadsheet along with details of the potteries, dates they existed etc (book material?) but it needs a good tidy up.

I can confirm from memeory that Micks list is about 97% correct so for the casual SRD'er it should be pretty informative.

Bourne by the way were a long standing maker of drinks bottles and are more famous for their small dye bottles that can be found in any antique centre. The 1, 2 4 etc in Bourne marks will be inspectors marks.

John

[Nolf]

Gunner Bailey, on 18 June 2010 - 07:41 PM, said:

Hi Wouter

Thanks for joining the thread. SRD jars only started to be produced around 1900 so 1844 is impossible. I agree that your jar is most likely to be January 44. The reason being that no WW1 jars were ever dated and that it is possible that your jar may have been originally wicker covered and the maker may not have thought SRD needed to be added. That I think is the most likely scenario.

John

Hi John,
apparently I didn't get a notification of this post! Sorry!
As you say, it will be 1944, too bad but thats not something for my collection then!
In the mean time, I received/ bought some more jars, an skey tamworth 1 gallon and a 1/2 gallon marked phillips & son castleford,
but I'm in doubt about the age, because of the very clear ink stamp. Could this be WW1? Too bad it got decapitated..

And a bit off-topic, but I have another marking on a stoneware jar (no SRD), that I haven't seen or heard from before..
It's a piramid-shape with a C & B in. I thought perhaps Crosse & Blackwell, but I can't find any old examples of markings or such...

kind regards and keep up the good work with this thread!

Wouter

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[18th Battalion]

Wouter

Your SRD does look like a WW1 example, the accepted knowledge seems to be that the WW2 examples will have a date stamp and the bottom will be glazed: as to the other jar it is probably an ordinary commercial or domestic jar; could be Crosse & Blackwell?

I'm sure John will be along to comment soon.

Paul

[auchonvillerssomme]

18th Battalion, on 17 May 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

Wouter

Your SRD does look like a WW1 example, the accepted knowledge seems to be that the WW2 examples will have a date stamp and the bottom will be glazed: as to the other jar it is probably an ordinary commercial or domestic jar; could be Crosse & Blackwell?

I'm sure John will be along to comment soon.

Paul

I generally go against the grain when it comes to accepted knowledge, sorry my WW2 bottoms aren't glazed.

Mick

[Nolf]

18th Battalion, on 17 May 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

Wouter

Your SRD does look like a WW1 example, the accepted knowledge seems to be that the WW2 examples will have a date stamp and the bottom will be glazed: as to the other jar it is probably an ordinary commercial or domestic jar; could be Crosse & Blackwell?

I'm sure John will be along to comment soon.

Paul

Hi Paul,
thank you very much for your reaction!
Well, indeed, I know of the accepted knowledge, and it doesn't have a glazed bottom..
But I don't know for example if there's a difference in 1/2 gallon jar model between ww1 and ww2.. We'll see what John has to say about it,
I hope it can be determined as ww1 :-)

[Nolf]

auchonvillerssomme, on 18 May 2011 - 05:51 AM, said:

I generally go against the grain when it comes to accepted knowledge, sorry my WW2 bottoms aren't glazed.

Mick

Hi Mick, well I can imagine there are always exceptions,
my 1944 (instead of 1844 ) Jar doesn't have SRD on it but does have a year marking..
Bottom is only partially glazed..

Thanks for your message!

[auchonvillerssomme]

The only maker I have with a glazed bottom is PRICE. I'm intrigued now because I have never seen the references that tell us glazed bottoms are unique to WW2. Anyone?

[18th Battalion]

auchonvillerssomme, on 18 May 2011 - 01:17 PM, said:

The only maker I have with a glazed bottom is PRICE. I'm intrigued now because I have never seen the references that tell us glazed bottoms are unique to WW2. Anyone?

Mick

In reference to the glazed bottoms being WW2 I'm sure I've read something about it in this thread; I do seem to recall seeing a scan somewhere of a post WW1 specification document for the jars that stated that they where to be fully glazed. The WW2 jars I have seen have all had the SRD printed in a larger font size compared to the WW1 jars so possibly this is a distinguishing feature?

I also have a Price jar with a glazed bottom, the Price stamp doesn't have the usual (piece work?) number, just "Price Bristol", I asked John about this, and the thinking is, that it was made between the wars? The other Price jar I have is a 1/2 Gallon stamped "Price 21 Bristol" and it doesn't have a glazed bottom.

Paul