180 replies to this topic

[seadog]

Well thats the kiss of death for BIRDSONG, Steven likes it!

Norman

[PJA]

The unflinching nature of the film took me by surprise.  We're inured to explicit sex scenes : they're routine, almost to be expected.  But the frightful depiction of mutilation and death was very harrowing, and I have to admit that I found it distressing.....which, after all, it bloody well should be.  First rate stuff. The BBC has come a long way since The Monocled Mutineer, hasn't it ?  

Phil (PJA)

[slick63]

I was looking forward to this all week and wasn`t disappointed. There are parts in the tv adaptation which have been missed out/added/changed from the narrative of the book, but then it is an adaptation and would probably take five or six episodes if they tried to follow the original storyline.
The chap who played Wraysford acted the part well, in the book he is a distant, hardfaced probably lovelorn chap, almost unlikeable in places. So the long stares into the distance are appropriate to emphasise remembering a love lost, and an almost disconnection with the world.
They didn`t really build on the backgrounds of Firebrace (always thinking about his sick son) or Weir (drink habit, scared stiff but still cracking on with the job, and looking after his men).
I suspect that they have treated Wraysford as the central character, whereas in the book there are several around which the story rotates.
I also suspect that they will miss out the storyline set in 1978, which is a shame as there is one scene where the lady visits an old chap who has been in a hospital for fifty years as a result of his experiences during the war. Reminds me of the time in 2004 whilst working on car recoveries,I picked up an old chap and his campervan. He was a recently retired mental health nurse and reminisced to me how he came across chaps suffering from shell shock from the great war stuck in a hospital in Northampton well into the early 1980s.
I`m definately looking forward to next weeks episode.

[BillyShears]

Don't tell us anymore slick and spoil it
not everyone has read the book and is waiting for the next and final
exciting installment.
Norman maybe you should change the Red Ensign for the Q flag  ?

Billy

[skipman]

Birdsong Episode 1

I never heard any of it, so might try it on the headphones. Years of rock 'n' roll, have taken their toll.

Mike

[slick63]

BillyShears, on 23 January 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Don't tell us anymore slick and spoil it
not everyone has read the book and is waiting for the next and final
exciting installment.
Billy

Oops, sorry ladies and gents

[Moonraker]

I thought it was good. The sets for the war scenes - and indeed for the factory - were very convincing, and the acting excellent, especially the expressions that flickered across the faces of Wraysford and his lady friend without the need for dialogue. But some of the "looks" did go on a bit long. Their love scenes were also convincing, though I was not impressed by the lady's upper-body physique. I was a bit puzzled by the marks on her body (are these Norman's "moles"?), but I assumed these to be marks inflicted on her by her husband. And it took me a little while to work out that Wraysford's men were being deployed down the tunnel to guard the diggers against attacks by German tunnellers.

The writers have had to cram a lot in - and I understand they've had to ignore the third book - and perhaps more could have been done to delineate Wraysford's pre-war character.


Moonraker

[Alan Curragh]

I wonder if this is a case of those who have read the book can appreciate the way the film-makers have captured the character of Wraysford, and portrayed the pre-war scenes, while those of us who haven't read it (excepting Broomers) are mistaking subtlety for sluggishness

[SteveMarsdin]

Neil Mackenzie, on 22 January 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

- you don't expect a Great War film to be too quiet!!!!
Neil

Never heard of "All Quiet on the Western Front" !

[KIRKY]

Alan, think that is right, I always thought he would be like this and also thought Isabel would be like she is in the film, however, I always imagined her husband to be a lot older than portrayed. Jack is the most moving character in the book and this is also played well. ( all in my humble opinion!)
Tony

[Roger H]

Having read the book, I thought the production was magnificent and the acting excellent.  The sexual tension created between the two was superb.

And Norman, if you channel hopped to watch the snooker, I do not think you are qualified to comment.

Roger

[ianw]

I get the impression that this may have been designed to be done over 6 hour long episodes or similar and was cut back - hence the lack of character development in the final product.

The element that fascinated me in the book were the pre-war train rides up to Albert , Beaumont Hamel etc and the sense of foreboding derived from them. This unfortunately seems to have been ignored - but there is only so much you can do in 3 hours.

[SFayers]

ianw, on 23 January 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

The element that fascinated me in the book were the pre-war train rides up to Albert , Beaumont Hamel etc and the sense of foreboding derived from them. This unfortunately seems to have been ignored - but there is only so much you can do in 3 hours.

I agree Ian, though as you say only so much is possible in 3 hours worth of film.

They did depict, what I assumed to be, the leisurely boat trip on the Ancre though (I seem to recall this being described in the book - but then it's years since I read it!); but if you hadn't read the book to know where they were there's no way the connection of their locality with regard to 'future events' could be made.

cheers

Steve

[BIFFO]

VWD     

[archangel9]

Read the book and thought it was excellent, will do so again some day. Missed it last night as I was working and BBC iPlayer doesn't work in Republic of Ireland so will have to wait for a repeat . Or try to be inventive with proxy settings.........

John

[PJA]

At the risk of being labelled a sexist, I reckon that women are better than men at producing this raw stuff about people in extremis.  Abi Morgan dramatised this version, Lynn Horsford produced it.  Morgan was prominent in the making of that extremely raw film SHAME ; we can also refer to HURT LOCKER for another example of the feminine hand in the production of gritty and harrowing depictions of warfare.

Phil (PJA)

[lenandoliver]

Having read the book, which i must admit i rather enjoyed. I watched the first episode last night, with a bit of trepidation as far as the tunnel scenes were concerned. I have to admit though, i was quite impressed, and with the trench scenes. I for one am looking forward to next weeks finale. Whoever was the `beebs` war consultant, for me, he or she did a good job. A shame that the same person was not with ITV when they did Downton Abbey war scenes. Imo

Regards Frances

[Jim Smithson]

lenandoliver, on 23 January 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Having read the book, which i must admit i rather enjoyed. I watched the first episode last night, with a bit of trepidation as far as the tunnel scenes were concerned. I have to admit though, i was quite impressed, and with the trench scenes. I for one am looking forward to next weeks finale. Whoever was the `beebs` war consultant, for me, he or she did a good job. A shame that the same person was not with ITV when they did Downton Abbey war scenes. Imo

Regards Frances

As Peter Barton was the consultant on the tunnel scenes I do think that 'homework' was done, at least in that quarter.

[GRANVILLE]

Trust me, few will fall asleep faster than me to something that doesn't grab the attention, but in the case of Birdsong it held me all the way and frankly I thought it was very good in all respects & will certainly be watching the second half. Not having interminable advert breaks was a big help as was not having read the book, so I had mo preconceived ideas. Thumbs up from me.

Dave Upton

[lenandoliver]

Jim Smithson, on 23 January 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

As Peter Barton was the consultant on the tunnel scenes I do think that 'homework' was done, at least in that quarter.

Well no wonder those scenes were excellent then. Well done to Mr Barton, and to the `beeb` for actually listening to an expert.

Regards Frances

[ChrisC]

I enjoyed it. I had read the book and the depiction of the characters was different from the pictures that I'd painted in my head - aren't they always.
Firebrace character, well acted; Wraysford, not convinced; expressionless & wooden. No passion either in his lust or his fear that I could see.
Not too many LLBD cliches yet.

Only one whinge. As an ex Driver on the Piccadilly Line I doubt that a clay kicker who built the Central Railway pre 1914 would have referred to "London Underground". Oh no, oh no no no...

Chris C

[silkman3811]

Its all about perspective...

First let me say that I am genuinely in awe of the level of knowledge contained on this site.

However, there are some people who simply love to criticise...

There are always things that could be done better when  producing period television or film dramas - either because of historic  inaccuracy, political sensitivity, financial constraints, commercial pressures or any  combination thereof

With regard to the first episode of BIRDSONG, I think it was pretty good. I loved the book and whilst the initial present day element didn't make it to the screen, I still think it knitted together quite well as a story and the war scenes were well executed - BBC drama back on form.

As for the hot potato that is WARHORSE... it is what it is, a Holywood epic that is a box office hit. Does it give an accurate depiction of the Great War - No.  

But please let's have some perspective - is it really that bad? After all, when was the last time that Holywood produced a big budget war film that wasn't centred around US forces?. Not only that, but how many of your average twenty or thirty somethings know anything about The Great War? I'm 46 and I can't recall seeing a mainstream film about WW1 that was in colour!
Surely, if mainstream films and TV dramas help raise the awareness of the ignorant masses to the cataclysmic events of 1914-18, it can't be a bad thing. If a few kids who go to see it ask if their relatives were in the war surely this must be a positive result?

When one looks at the efforts that have gone before (Battle of The Bulge, Pearl Harbour, U-571, even our own The Battle of Britain), and the pressures to dumb down and sensationalize, I think Mr Spielberg should be applauded! Funny that he took similar criticism from the "men in the know" for historical aspects of Saving Private Ryan and (to a lesser degree) Pacific, and yet the battle scenes are generally acknowledged as about "as real as it gets" from the guys who were there...

As I said, I guess it's all about your perspective...

off my soap box!
Steve




  
  
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[silkman3811]

He's the murderer!

BillyShears, on 23 January 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Don't tell us anymore slick and spoil it
not everyone has read the book and is waiting for the next and final
exciting installment.
Norman maybe you should change the Red Ensign for the Q flag  ?

Billy

[seadog]

Billy I am so stimulated by the level of discussion that I can hardly wait until the next and final episode. I think it very brave of the director to attempt a film of the book, the screenplay for which has been written by a few people but nobody could be persuaded to take any of them up. Having seen a part of the first episode in between channel surfing  this and the snooker final (much more exciting)I can quite understand why. I agree with the Daily Telegraph TV critic (Mon) who wisely stated:

“When Wraysfords near-expired body was rescued at the end of the episode it looked like a scene from the Deposition of Christ. No accident I’m sure; the British Officer like Jesus would be brought back from the dead”.

I could not have summed up that wonderful scene any better.

Regards
Norman

[Steven Broomfield]

Oddly enough, and as I hope I mentioned earlier, I didn't like Birdsong because of its depiction of the GW. I liked it because it was a good story, by a proper novelist, well made, well acted and ultimately well produced. It didn't play to over-wrought emotion. It didn't want me to indulge myself in false tears for the sake of mawkishness. It didn't pound my brain with loud music and lots of noise. It didn't insult me with clever-clever film shots designed to make me marvel at the producer's ability and technical know-how. It just told a good story well.

Now War Horse ...