217 replies to this topic

[centurion]

And another early 1915 French design
 cnp_periscope_rifle_01.jpeg   35.99K   5 downloads

[MikeS0000]

centurion, on 22 March 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:

The firer would have to reach up to work the bolt which seems a good way to get some fingers shot off. Here is an alternative French design that avoids this
imag0301.jpeg

Hello Centurion -

Yes, I haven't uncovered a period photo of the one I posted. Now, for the last photo..., what is that rifle? It looks like a Gras, which wouldn't make sense as it was a single shot, or possibly a Belgian or Turk??? But, I can't make out a magazine on it.

Best regards!
- Mike

[Ianander]

MikeS0000, on 22 March 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

As per discussion in the preceding pages, here is a French Periscope Rifle (periscope - Lebel) combination.

Best regards!
- Mike

Periscope_Rifle_small.jpg

Hello Mike , thanks for the picture of the french periscope rifle, I take it the second stock ,the trigger is attacted to main rifle trigger

best regards
Ian

[Ianander]

centurion, on 22 March 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:

And another early 1915 French design
cnp_periscope_rifle_01.jpeg

Hello Centurion
                               you have turned up with  another great picture, many thanks again  Centurion

best regards

Ian

[MikeS0000]

Ianander, on 24 March 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

Hello Mike , thanks for the picture of the french periscope rifle, I take it the second stock ,the trigger is attacted to main rifle trigger

best regards
Ian

Hello Ian -

You're correct, there is a cord that goes through a roller and possible a loop (haven't figured it all out yet) with a metal hook that engages the actual rifle's trigger,

Best,
- Mike

[Ianander]

MikeS0000, on 24 March 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

Hello Ian -

You're correct, there is a cord that goes through a roller and possible a loop (haven't figured it all out yet) with a metal hook that engages the actual rifle's trigger,

Best,
- Mike

Hi Mike,                      as Centurion said it better than getting your fingers shot off !!

cheer's Mike

Ian

[ScorpioUnbound]

What ho.

Not so much an invention as a development but the introduction of the Casualty Clearing Station saved a lot of lives.

Cheer ho

John.

[centurion]

ScorpioUnbound, on 29 March 2011 - 11:50 PM, said:

What ho.

Not so much an invention as a development but the introduction of the Casualty Clearing Station saved a lot of lives.

Cheer ho

John.

Indeed it did, but it might be considered to have grown out of the South African war where the experience of field hospitals resulted in them being combined with the bearer companies to become what were first called Field Ambulances which in turn became the first Casualty Clearance Stations.

[squirrel]

Again perhaps not an "invention" during WW1 but blood transfusions certainly developed as a result of it.

[Ianander]

ScorpioUnbound, on 29 March 2011 - 11:50 PM, said:

What ho.

Not so much an invention as a development but the introduction of the Casualty Clearing Station saved a lot of lives.

Cheer ho

John.

Hello John
                   and Welcome to great war Forum , Yes John very useful introduction (casualty clearing station) I am totally in agreement with you . many thanks for your input  much appreciated  

Best regards
Ian

[Ianander]

squirrel, on 30 March 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

Again perhaps not an "invention" during WW1 but blood transfusions certainly developed as a result of it.

Hello squirrel
                         I didn't know that about blood transfusions were developed as result of it. many thanks, invention or not it still very important in saving many lives

Best regards
Ian

[Ianander]

centurion, on 30 March 2011 - 09:56 AM, said:

Indeed it did, but it might be considered to have grown out of the South African war where the experience of field hospitals resulted in them being combined with the bearer companies to become what were first called Field Ambulances which in turn became the first Casualty Clearance Stations.

Hi Centurion
                          Many thanks to the wealth of information that you always supply in your posts

Best regards
Ian

[Ianander]

Another clever invention was the mine that set it own depth to stop submarines

[Ianander]

Wireless Radio
                            the use of wireless radio was a step in the right direction. I have a picture of airman wearing headphones. that would have been good for reporting enemy position


regards
Ian

[Ianander]

Hi all
          I came across this other day, a self - healing gasolene tank. does anyone have any information on this. I would like also know which country developed this and were all aeroplanes fitted with these ?

[centurion]

Ianander, on 14 April 2011 - 04:04 PM, said:

Another clever invention was the mine that set it own depth to stop submarines

Almost all mines of the period set their own depth and not particularly for submarines

[centurion]

Ianander, on 04 June 2011 - 10:57 PM, said:

Wireless Radio
                            the use of wireless radio was a step in the right direction. I have a picture of airman wearing headphones. that would have been good for reporting enemy position


regards
Ian

Wireless and radio are two names (British and American) for the same thing (like ASDIC and SONAR, RDF and RADAR).

[centurion]

Ianander, on 12 June 2011 - 09:38 PM, said:

Hi all
          I came across this other day, a self - healing gasolene tank. does anyone have any information on this. I would like also know which country developed this and were all aeroplanes fitted with these ?

These were being experimented with at the end of the war (mainly I think by the British). In Germany Fokker had the idea of a jetisonable tank but no production variant was available by the end of the war - more later.

[Ianander]

Thankyou Centurion
                                      For your posts, If you have any more information on self-healing gasolene tanks that would be really appreciated

again thanks for your help

regards
Ian

[centurion]

Fokker had the idea of replacing the aerofoil section over the axle of his later fighters with a slightly fatter aerofoil main fuel tank. If this took fire the pilot could drop it (and then try and glide down but at least he wouldn't be on fire). Problem was producing a tank that could stand up to take off and landings and not leak like a sieve - not solved until the war was over.

[centurion]

Just a quicky - more to follow. Britain, America and France all working on self sealing fuel tanks from 1917 onwards. US Navy started experiments in May 1917. French work originally intended for army tanks after the experience with the Schneiders. However French built Hanriot Fighters of the Belgian Air Corps began to be equipped with Lanser self sealing tanks from Oct 1918, one of the first pilots to use this being their ace Baron Willy Coppens (sometimes known as the green Baron). Dh 4s and 9as of the RAF beginning to be equiped by end of war. Some were already fitted with fire extinguishing systems.  Problem was such tanks were much heavier and even by WW2 many aircraft did not have them these included the early British Wellingtons, many US aircraft pre 1941, the Japanese Zero and Oscar fighters and all Japanese bombers when the Pacific war started.

[NigelS]

centurion, on 17 June 2011 - 10:54 PM, said:

...Problem was such tanks were much heavier and even by WW2 many aircraft did not have them these included the early British Wellingtons, many US aircraft pre 1941, the Japanese Zero and Oscar fighters and all Japanese bombers when the Pacific war started.

My late mother was always very proud of her war work which was putting the layers on which made up the self sealing coverings on all sizes and types of WWII aircraft fuel tanks; One of her favourite jobs was working on large tanks for Wellingtons (possibly overload); these were of such a size and weight that she and her workmate weren't allowed to lift them and men had to be summoned to do so (as an unmarried teenage girl at the time, possibly this was the reason they were a favourite!) I'm sure I've read or heard somewhere that one of the things that hindered the acceptance of self sealing technology in  the UK was, that although the self sealing might work well, it was the difficulty in getting designs to pass a stringent drop test which involved throwing the tank under test from a ministry building roof!

NigelS

[centurion]

As promised a bit more.

The French Salmson2 A2 used by the French and Americans was fitted with a self sealing tank using natural rubber over metal. From July 1918 so was the French Breguet 14 used by the French and Belgians

In September 1918 the first USD-9As (American equivalent of the DH9a) flew with self sealing tanks, again using natural rubber as a component. These were too late for combat. The RAF were trying these tanks out but again too late for combat

The Germans were certainly aware of self sealing tanks (a certain H Goring having reported that they made it more difficult to shoot down allied bombers and recce aircraft) but made no effort to develop them. This was probably because Germany was in the main restricted to the use of either early forms or artificial rubber (produced from oil) or recycled rubber, neither any use for self sealing tanks. What little natural rubber that was obtained by smuggling through neutral countries (and even this dried up with Brazil's entry into the war) was reserved for essential parts of U boats and similar uses.

Inter-war aircraft produced by all nations tended not to have the heavier and more expensive self sealing tanks. It took WW2 combat experience to see their re introduction (along with armour plate). One of the reason's for the Mitsubishi Zero's initial success was it's superb power to weight ratio, this was in part due to a complete lack of self sealing tanks or armour. However one small mistake could allow an Allied aircraft to get in the shot that set it ablaze so that the death toll of novice pilots was high which in turn led to a lack of experienced pilots.

[NigelS]

I remembered where I'd read about the drop test, it was in Most Secret War by R.V. Jones (an account of his involvement with British Scientific Intelligence during WWII). He commented that a British aircraft in the early stages of WWII were found to more vulnerable than their German counterpart with a single bullet hole to a British bomber fuel tank being enough to prevent its return to base:

'whereas the German bombers in the Forth raid had taken many bullets with seemingly little inconvenience. The single bomber we had shot down was found to have self sealing tanks, and an enquiry revealed that  similar designs had been available in pre-war year for our aircraft, but had been rejected.'

Jones continues:

'In fact, a nearly satisfactory bullet-proof tank was developed before the end of World War I but, with peace, the specification had been altered to include crash-proof as well as bullet-proof characteristics, since crashes were then the major danger. As a result every design submitted to the Air Ministry was taken to Farnborough, filled with liquid, and dropped over the side of one of the buildings onto concrete, where it inevitably broke up, and was therefore rejected. Some of the designs would in fact have been bullet-proof (this being achieved by a spongy rubber envelope which closed up again after the bullet had passed through it), but none could stand the 60 ft. onto concrete. It proved a lesson in the importance of making sure that the paper specification defined the essential requirement - I know of at least one other example, when one of my colleagues showed, that according to the War Office specification, the ideal material for making crash helmets for its motorcycle riders would have been plate glass.

NigelS

[NigelS]

A poke around in the European patent database found these early applications for self sealing fuel tanks, all dating back to WW1 (It looks as if the two Dunlop ones, although British patents, might have originated in France)

GB 140118  (A)  -  Improvements in or relating to reservoirs for liquid fuel Click
GB 140120  (A)  -  Improvements in or relating to liquid fuel reservoirs Click
US 1386791  (A)  -  Self-puncture-sealing covering for fuel-containers Click

NigelS