43 replies to this topic

[DianneD]

One of my relatives was unfortunate enough to be captured by the Germans, whilst wounded on the Somme, and ended up in this camp. Does anybody know anything about this POW camp. All I know is that it is near Berlin

I'll be gratefull for any information

Dianne

[Egypt]

Sorry Diane, would need to know the name of the camp in order to help you - 'Gefangenenlager' in German simply means 'camp for prisoners'
Michael

[DianneD]

Sorry Diane, would need to know the name of the camp in order to help you - 'Gefangenenlager' in German simply means 'camp for prisoners'
Michael

Hmmmmmm!  I didn't realise that, the term Gefangenenlager shows up several time in the service record so I (stupidly) presumed it was the name of the POW camp!

On closer inspection it is Celle Lager

I know even less about this than Gefangenenlager, which I guess is difficult to believe ...

Dianne

[O Wilkinson]

Hi Dianne,

From Mrs Pope-Hennessy’s, ‘Map of the Main Prison Camps in Germany and Austria’ the following is noted about Celle:

“Celle (Scheuen) – Camp a few miles from the town of Celle on the Aller, 28 miles N.E. of Hanover. A training centre for German reserves. On sandy soil near pine woods. Camp broken up in the autumn of 1916, but Reserve Lazaret I [i.e. a Hospital] (St Joseph) reserved for eye cases. 10th Army Corps”

Do you know when your relative was there or any other details about him/his experience? You mention he was wounded on the Somme. Was this in 1916 (i.e the infamous Battle of the Somme) – If so he might have gone to Celle before it was broken up or was he injured in the eyes – Thus he might have been sent to the specialist Lazaret there?

Incidentally there was also a civilian interment established in the old castle at Celle – This camps was called Celle Schloss

If I come across anything else on Celle I will certainly let your know

Regards

Oli

[DianneD]

Hi Dianne,

From Mrs Pope-Hennessy's, 'Map of the Main Prison Camps in Germany and Austria' the following is noted about Celle:

"Celle (Scheuen) – Camp a few miles from the town of Celle on the Aller, 28 miles N.E. of Hanover. A training centre for German reserves. On sandy soil near pine woods. Camp broken up in the autumn of 1916, but Reserve Lazaret I [i.e. a Hospital] (St Joseph) reserved for eye cases. 10th Army Corps"

Do you know when your relative was there or any other details about him/his experience? You mention he was wounded on the Somme. Was this in 1916 (i.e the infamous Battle of the Somme) – If so he might have gone to Celle before it was broken up or was he injured in the eyes – Thus he might have been sent to the specialist Lazaret there?

Incidentally there was also a civilian interment established in the old castle at Celle – This camps was called Celle Schloss

Hi Oli

Thanks for this

Grandad's brother was known to have a wound to the groin on 23/10/1914, so presumably an easy-ish capture as he wouldn't have been able to get away.  He was reported as missing from the 1st Battalion, Chesshire Regiment on the same day.  I have no idea where this took place.   From 23/10/1914 there was no information.  On 13/3/1916 he was reported as being a prisoner of war at Celle Camp.  He was realeased from the Prisoner of war camp on 26/12/1918.  On 27/12/1918 he was sent home to Ripon Camp, North Yorkshire and transferred to the 'Z' list on 25/03/1919

The service records have very little info about his time in captivity (2 sentences) but the camp is described as Celle Lager not Celle Schloss.  Although on capture he would have been in a hospital unit, due to his wound, but could have been transferred elsewhere once he recovered from the wound I guess

Dianne

[fritz]

Hello Dianne,

not easy to find anything in internet about your theme. But this may be of interest as a first puzzle element.

Kind regards

Fritz

[DianneD]

Hi Fritz

Thats brilliant!  I never thought for a minute I'd get any sort of image of a POW camp
I'm starting to get a feel for this place now.  
I suppose it's a wish too far to get some sort of idea of what life would have been like in Celle

Dianne

[fritz]

Hi Dianne

perhaps not so much interesting for you, but another hit about Celle.

http://www.muenzauktion.com/krogoll/item_p...o=eu&id=991

Fritz

[DianneD]

Fritz

So the officers were billeted in Celle Schloss and the men were in Celle Lager I guess ...
Its a long time since I've seen a pfenning, although I guess you use euro's now
I used to live in Germany as a child, born at RAF Wegberg
I've been trawling the internet for the last half hour, trying to find some info (in English) on CelleLager!  Without sucess!!!!

Dianne

[Doug Johnson]

The camp also appears to be called Scheuen and it may have become an officers camp after it was closed as a men's camp.  Celle Schloss was a camp for retired officers.

I have good clear photographs of both camps but not scanned as yet.  The one of Scheuen says "Gefangenenlager in Scheuen b.Celle".

Other photographs appear in Die Kriegsgefangenen in Deutschland and a report in Miscellaneous No 11 (1915) Reports by United States Ambassador Officials on the Treatment of British Prisoners of War and Interned Civilians at certain places of detention in Germany;  Cd 7861

The following are known to be associated places;

Ahlhorn
Reserve Lazaret I (St Joseph)
Schwansburg Bei Friesoythe
Vehnemoor

A report is available for viewing from Pte R S Baillie, 1st London Scottish, on National Archives - Your Archives

Doug

[DianneD]

Hi Doug

Thanks very much for your help and information.  It's very good, usefull information that is helping me to get a an understanding of Celle Camp.  I'm trying to do a short write-up of my relative, before his story is lost in the annals of time
I now know roughly where the camp is and more especially what it was like to be there
I'd never have found the account by Private Baillie, which I have read now

Dianne

[MartinWills]

I have a feeling that I've seen some postcards of the camp, but can't remember where. If I remember (or anyone else does) I'm sure some pointers will appear here.

[Pete1052]

Celle is a small town near Munster Lager, a large German army training area near Hannover.  Munster Lager has been a military training area since the 19th century--in a way it is to the German army as Salisbury Plain is to the British military.  Today the German army still uses the place and in 1979 I was there as a U.S. Army lieutenant on an exercise with our partnership Bundeswehr battalion.  The map I was given of the training area had sections cross-hatched in red showing where persistent chemical agent contamination remained in the ground from Great War training exercises.  It doesn't surprise me that Celle has a military association from the Great War due to its proximity to the training area.  Click here to view photos of the built-up part of Munster Lager in 1938.

[fritz]

Hi,

meanwhile we are waiting for ancient pics we can see here a view of the Schloss, once a residance of the Hanoverian King.

FRITZ

[fritz]

Hi,

meanwhile we are waiting for ancient pics we can see here a view of the Schloss, once a residance of the Hanoverian King.

FRITZ

Hi,

meanwhile we are waiting for ancient pics we can see here a view of the Schloss, once a residance of the Hanoverian King.

FRITZ

[DianneD]

Thanks Oli, Doug, Martin, Pete and Fritz and everyone else who has added information to this thread

My knowledge base on this POW camp is expanding rapidly now
I know the background of the camp (thanks Pete)
I know where it is ... roughly
I know what life was like there (thanks Doug for the link to Private Baillie)
I just need some images of the camp from WW1, but I guess that is a bit of a pipedream
When was the modern picture of the Schloss taken Fritz? It certainly looks fit for a royal family to live in!

Until I recently started on this WW1 journey by researching another great uncle (1st City of London Regiment, Royal Fusiliers) who was not a POW but was KIA, I had no idea that any prisoners were taken during the course of WW1.  This is the first POW camp I have tried to research, so I am gratefull for all of your help

Dianne

[Doug Johnson]

Dianne,

I repeat that I have a clear photograph of the camp c1915, just not scanned as yet.  If you want I will add it to my list of scanning jobs and get it done over the holidays.  Die Kriegsgefangenen in Deutschland also has pictures of the camp but I can't remember what they are. I may be able to scan these as well if you want.  I say may as my copy is tightly bound and I do not want to destroy it.  I also have some other reports but these are not yet transcribed.  I did Baillie's report a while ago as he was taken prisoner at the same time as my Grandfather.

Munster Lager was also the location of a PoW camp to which a number of British were sent.  I have images of that one as well and it is not the same camp as the military barracks that were there or are there now as the camp was huts and tents, though they may have used part of the old barracks. The huts around the station look as though they are the same as those in some of the photographs of the prison camp.

NB for anyone interested, a report by Lt Dobson, RND (PoW Oct 1914) is about to go on-line now that technical issues have been resolved.

Doug

[DianneD]

I have a clear photograph of the camp c1915, just not scanned as yet. If you want I will add it to my list of scanning jobs and get it done over the holidays. Die Kriegsgefangenen in Deutschland also has pictures of the camp but I can't remember what they are. I may be able to scan these as well if you want. I say may as my copy is tightly bound and I do not want to destroy it. I also have some other reports but these are not yet transcribed. I did Baillie's report a while ago as he was taken prisoner at the same time as my Grandfather.

Munster Lager was also the location of a PoW camp to which a number of British were sent. I have images of that one as well and it is not the same camp as the military barracks that were there or are there now as the camp was huts and tents, though they may have used part of the old barracks. The huts around the station look as though they are the same as those in some of the photographs of the prison camp.

NB for anyone interested, a report by Lt Dobson, RND (PoW Oct 1914) is about to go on-line now that technical issues have been resolved.

Hi Doug

Apologies for the oversight!  I will be gratefull for any images that you can scan for me any anybody else who is following this thread

I didnt realise that you transcribed the report by Baillie, it is a good piece of work well done.  I am really an amateur genealogist and have a terrible time trying to decipher old handwriting., so I know how difficult it is!  I was amazed to read that transcript and felt somewhat in awe of the man that wrote it - amid the emotional and physical chaos of his life at that time he was able to collect his thoughts and diarise them.  When I started this thread I never thought for a minute that I'd get a transcript of life in a POW camp from WW1 but am gratefull that I have.  I have a better understanding now of the life of a POW as a result

Where will the Lt Dobson report be going ... will it be TNA again?  I'd like to read that one when it becomes available!

Many thanks for your help

Dianne

[Doug Johnson]

Diane,

If you open Baillie's report and click on the category at the very bottom of the transcript it will take you to a list of all the reports transcribed so far.  Dobson's report (in two parts) went on a few minutes ago.

NB these are transcribed from printed reports which you can buy a copy of on line.  The project is to make these reports more available but the plan is to do it via the Wiki system which requires that they are transcribed rather than uploaded as PDF's.

Doug

[Pete1052]

During World War II the infamous Bergen-Belsen concentration camp was located about 11 miles north of Celle.  It was a POW camp before it became a concentration camp, but I have not been able to ascertain whether the WW II POW/concentration camp was the same facility as the Great War camp at or near Celle.

[DianneD]

During World War II the infamous Bergen-Belsen concentration camp was located about 11 miles north of Celle. It was a POW camp before it became a concentration camp, but I have not been able to ascertain whether the WW II POW/concentration camp was the same facility as the Great War camp at or near Celle.

Hi Pete

When I first started this thread, I did an innternet search on 'Celle' and it bought up Bergen-Belson.  Of those sites that cam up and were in English, one was about Bergen-Belsen.  For a brief few minutes I thought Bergen-Belsen and Celle were the same place.  Did a bit of reading and realised there was no connection!  I didnt realise that bergen-Belson was a POW camp before a concentration camp, but I guess most people just see it as a concentration camp.  There seem to have been a few POW camps around this area.  I understand the area around Celle Camp is very military dense, presumably still is, and so would be an appropriate area for POW camps

What's it like in this area now?

Dianne

[Frank_East]

During World War II the infamous Bergen-Belsen concentration camp was located about 11 miles north of Celle.  It was a POW camp before it became a concentration camp, but I have not been able to ascertain whether the WW II POW/concentration camp was the same facility as the Great War camp at or near Celle.

The Great War POW Camp at Scheuen which is about 6 miles north of Celle and became a Luftwaffe airfield as the adjcent land was developed.It then fell into the hands of the RAF 2nd Tactical Air Force at the end of the war as RAF Celle and, I believe, was handed back to the Germans at the end of the 1950s.There is currently a British Army presence in Celle but I do not know where the site is.

Bergen was the site of a Wehrmacht barracks and to this day is a depot for the Bundeswehr.Close by and just down the road is the former concentration camp of Belsen, indicated as Bergen Belsen.When the British Army entered the camp, the stench was such that was reported that it would be difficult to accept that the Wehrmacht were unaware of the activities down the road.

Belsen was a POW Camp before it became a concentration camp but was used exclusively for Russians.This is evident by the large communal graves on the far side of the former main camp area.

[Pete1052]

Next month it will have been 30 years since I was in the area, so it's been a while.  The area is mostly flat with pine woods and has many buildings made of pale red brick.  In 1945 Field Marshal Montgomery accepted the surrender of Wehrmacht forces in the region in the nearby town of Luneburg.  While doing internet searches for this thread I ran across a few websites about barracks in Celle used by the British army during the Cold War--by inference those installations existed prior to 1945, and Celle was and is very much part of the complex of military facilities in the area.

[Frank_East]

[quote name='Frank_East' date='Dec 20 2008, 01:26 PM' post='1080861']
The Great War POW Camp at Scheuen which is about 6 miles north of Celle and became a Luftwaffe airfield as the adjcent land was developed.It then fell into the hands of the RAF 2nd Tactical Air Force at the end of the war as RAF Celle and, I believe, was handed back to the Germans at the end of the 1950s.There is currently a British Army presence in Celle but I do not know where the site is


Correction

RAF Celle was the former Luftwaffe airfield in the south western outskirts of Celle at Wietzenbruch which was handed back to the Germans in 1957- now a Luftwaffe helicopter airfield.

The POW camp at Scheuen, it would appear, was developed into the Frieherr von Fritsch barracks post 1934 which also had a Luiftwaffe supply airfield known to the Allies as Hustedt/Scheuen.It would appear that Scheuen is now a British Army base and the former Luftwaffe airfield is a civilian aeroclub

Apologies for the confusion.

[fritz]

Hello Dianne,

Wegberg that sounds like a lonely site where fox and hare wish good night together. Where is it?

It´s a hard job to find out a trace for your request. Here I saw a link what may be useful, but perhaps you still know it.

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...l%3Dde%26sa%3DN

Only a general information not special for your research.

Kind regards

Fritz