29 replies to this topic

[At Home Dad]

Hallo all

Further to the kind help I recieved here with my query
regarding my Great Grandfather in the 'West Ham Pals',
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=93227
I bring you the recently discovered sad tale of his Brother in Law...


Alfred James Stormey, Pte 177083, 328th Home Service Company, Labour Corps


He was 32 years old (12/12/85), 5ft 5in, and very deaf. I'm making the assumption that
his deafness may have been caused by his civvy job described as a platers improver at
an iron works. You never know, maybe it was even the Thames Iron Works, eh...

He served a total of approximately 1.5 years in the military,
his military character and conduct both regarded as good,
and then this:


Medical Report (B.179)

July 14th, 1917

Place of origin of disability: Lilbourne(?) near Rugby

"patient was quite healthy up to 9 months ago when he caught a chill while under canvas.
A result of ordinary military service. His condition has been gradually getting worse: coughing,
losing weight, perspiring at nights. Total incapacity at present. TB found in sputem."

He was officially discharged back to 2 James Place, off North Street
on 10/08/17, and his papers have a Military Pensions stamp of the
usually happy date 24th December 1917.


He died the same month at home with his mother.



I guess there were thousands just like Alfred James Stormey.

No medal.

No headstone.





Could someone kindly explain the picture below?
His old unit appears crossed out and Essex added.

Many thanks and kind regards all


(EDIT)

Some other questions:

1 - Were the symptoms of TB recognised quickly back then? Or regarded as "a chill"?
2 - Wouldn't it have been picked up at his initial medical if he was a carrier?
3 - Would he have been treated at a Military Hospital or a civilian one and
     would that be local to where he was based or local to where he lived?

4 - Any information on the types of works done by the HomeService Labour Corps in general
     and his unit in particular would be great

Attached Files

•  stormey.JPG   37.03K   0 downloads

[rjaydee]

Lilbourne ( your correct spelling) is in Warwickshire. Surely this is a knocking certainty for an "In from the cold" case, get weaving and he may soon have the commemoration he, and many others deserve. Regards Ralph.

[At Home Dad]

What's an 'in from the cold' case, Ralph?


Kind regards

Lilbourne ( your correct spelling) is in Warwickshire. Surely this is a knocking certainty for an "In from the cold" case, get weaving and he may soon have the commemoration he, and many others deserve. Regards Ralph.

[rjaydee]

A possible non-commemoration, click on Cemeteries and Memorials and near top of page right hand side check out Terry Denhams latest posting. I got one of my men commemorated on the CWGC just recently, and the GWF have had many successes, bless em. Ralph.

[chrisharley9]

At Home Dad

ask one of the moderators to move this thread to the non commemorated section

Chris

[At Home Dad]

done

[Terry Denham]

If the cause of death can be attributed to his service within the qualifying dates, he would be accepted for CWGC commemoration and War Grave status.

If you have his service records or other official papers proving the cause of his discharge and his death certificate showing the same cause, we can take the case onwards.

[John Hartley]

Terry - Service file is amongst the "pension records". Good detail about reason for discharge. No mention of death. But I'd have thought that assuming the DC doesnt show he was hit by a bus then as Ralph says this should be a "knocking certainty".

"Dad" - would you know where he's buried? Assuming everything else is OK, CWGC will want to erect one of their headstones in due course.

John

[At Home Dad]

hallo all

This is quite staggering.

I do have about 6 or 7 pages of his medical discharge. I can shrink
them and put them up shortly. I'll check whether I grabbed the lot
before my credits ran out on Ancestry.

Are there links to any GWF discussions on what 'qualifies' someone
for post-recognition in this way? I wouldn't want to be thought of as
someone wishing to play with history and apply today's sensitivities
on to yesterday's time. I simply found his story to be a sad sidenote
to that of my GGF, Joseph Cooper.

However, if the general concensus is one that he is War Dead because
he was close to death when discharged, and that he caught the chill
that killed him while on duty in the Army.... well then I owe it to the
man to get things "late but straight".

I'll have to get on the case for the death certificate, which may take a while.


Kind regards all

And thank you for your interest

[At Home Dad]

Hallo John

Paupers Unmarked Grave generally
for the family up until the 1970's,
no reason to think otherwise in this case.

He'll probably be Roman Catholic, so wherever
the big one's are around these parts.

I want to confirm via certificates that he is
Joseph Cooper's brother in law, I'm not certain
yet that he might not be Mrs Cooper's cousin
or something like that. I'm only starting out on
this 'ancestry' malarky and it's all proving quite
fascinating! They all lived extremely close to each
other anyway...


But this is no longer Joseph Cooper's story, anyhow.


Kind regards










Kind regards

"Dad" - would you know where he's buried? Assuming everything else is OK, CWGC will want to erect one of their headstones in due course.
John

[rjaydee]

According to FreeBMD his death was registered in STEPNEY December qtr 1917 volume 1c page 509. I dont think this reference is any use when applying for a DC. Ralph.

[At Home Dad]

Yes, I'll be getting on to it, but this
'housewife's budget' means just that.

It's a shame that this sequence of events
has happened just as I've taken delivery (and
therfore spent the budget) of my first ever
request for BMD certs about my direct family.

I only found the story of Albert James indirectly on the day
that the certificate of his sisters marriage to my GGF was
delivered through my door. Without that, I wouldn't have
even looked him up, nor spent my budget on him, on Ancestry.

I have had too many coincidences like that going on with this.

So, I'll be as quickfast as I can with the Death Certificate,
to make sure that he wasn't hit by a bus, as he was deaf
after all, as well at death's door with military grade TB.


What would be the cause for his being overlooked, I wonder?


Kind regards



images to follow

According to FreeBMD his death was registered in STEPNEY December qtr 1917 volume 1c page 509. I dont think this reference is any use when applying for a DC. Ralph.

Attached Files

•  alfred_stormey1.JPG   78.92K   0 downloads
•  alfred_stormey2.JPG   74.56K   0 downloads

[At Home Dad]

Attached Files

•  stormey3.JPG   74.29K   0 downloads
•  alfred_stormey4.JPG   71.59K   0 downloads
•  Alfred_Stormey5.JPG   41.86K   0 downloads
•  Alfred_Stormey6.JPG   52.86K   0 downloads
•  Alrfed_Stormey7.JPG   71.45K   0 downloads

[rjaydee]

At Home Dad, If you EVER need any look ups on Ancestry do not hesitate to ask. Regards. Ralph.

[At Home Dad]

I do now see that there are 10 pages in total on Alfred James Stormey's file,
and I only grabbed 7 of them before I hit zero credit. Wouldn't mind seeing
what's on the other three. Maybe a signature?

Thanks for the kind offer and the invaluable assistance


Kind regards

At Home Dad, If you EVER need any look ups on Ancestry do not hesitate to ask. Regards. Ralph.

[Heid the Ba']

What would be the cause for his being overlooked, I wonder?

It could be a clerical error, or simply whoever dealt with it not knowing he fitted the criteria.

[Terry Denham]

As a post discharge case, it is probable that the military authorities were never informed of the death. I don't think the pension authorities (who would have known of the death) played any part in adding names to the official roll.

Also, initially CWGC were only going to commemorate men who died in service. The post-discharge interpretation was added later.

[rjaydee]

Further to your post and 10 pages for this man, I have checked him again and the last 3 pages credited to him belong to the next man to him Percy Stormey. I have informed Ancestry of the error. Ralph.

[At Home Dad]

Thank you Ralph


A small sidenote to the story here:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...howtopic=100265

[At Home Dad]

Hallo Terry

I was going to post this as a PM, but then thought
that maybe someone else in the future may have
the same questions:


1 - When I recieve the Death Certificate, what should I do with it?
Is a scan posted here acceptible, or do I need to post you a hard copy or even the original duplicate?

2 - With a chance that everything proceeds well, and the MoD and CWGC agree he deserves a headstone,
what choice is there in where it is placed?

John Hartley asked if I knew where he is buried and I still think most likely is the paupers grave, but where
I dont know? I'll be asking one of the family elders soon if he knows, so that may help.

3 - But in the instance that, as a family, we dont know where he lies, is the CWGC
the one to make the choice of headstone location or does the family have an input?


It looks as if St Patrick's Cemetery (Roman Catholic) just
down the road from me in Leytonstone has Registers held
at the Cemetery with personal searches allowed at no charge
with an alphabetical card index for private graves.

Also East London Cemetery Co Ltd in Plaistow has the same offer, so
I think I owe it to him do do some checking further, just to make sure.


I have only recently seen this small but immense corner of the Great War Forum,
I had no idea it was here until I was asked to move the thread, and I had no idea
that such things as 'in from the cold' cases existed. It is absolutely awe inspiring
the effort, work and dedication you and the team put into finding these lost people.

Every time I come here I am humbled

Thank you for answering my silly questions



Kind regards

As a post discharge case, it is probable that the military authorities were never informed of the death. I don't think the pension authorities (who would have known of the death) played any part in adding names to the official roll.

Also, initially CWGC were only going to commemorate men who died in service. The post-discharge interpretation was added later.

[Terry Denham]

Dad (sorry for the familiarity)

1) Send me a scan of the DC by email. That is sufficient. Also send any other documents you have.

2) CWGC would place the headstone over his grave. If that cannot be located with a cemetery, they usually place a Special Memorial headstone within the cemetery at a location agreed with the cemetery authority (can even be in a separate nearby cemetery if the actual one is not available or they will not agree). This usually says 'Known to be Buried in this Cemetery').

3) If the grave cannot be located, they will have the name engraved on a Memorial to the Missing. For those who died in the UK, it is usually the Brookwood (United Kingdom 1914-1918) Memorial at Brookwood near Woking, Surrey.

The family cannot select a location.

[kinnethmont]

If the D Cert states Phthisis Pulmonaris (TB), as it appears it is bound to, you have likely cracked it. The report describes this as contracted due to, and aggravated by, his military service. It was also the cause / reason for his medical discharge.

[Ivor Lee]

328 Company is shown as located at Northampton.

Unfortunately the UK based companies did not keep War Diaries so very little is known about them. As a works company their primary role would have been undertaking basic building work.  As an example works companies would be used to refurbish boxes used to carry ammo and supplies to France, build/repair buildings at army camps and provide men who were employed by civilian employers involved in the war effort.


Ivor

[At Home Dad]

Thank you Ivor.

I did wonder whether he would have been employed
by his trade: Plate Improver, something to do with the
laying of railway track. But I guess his general abilities
would be employed wherever needed.

I did wonder about War Diaries and thought that there
may have been little point to them!


Kind regards

328 Company is shown as located at Northampton.

Unfortunately the UK based companies did not keep War Diaries so very little is known about them. As a works company their primary role would have been undertaking basic building work. As an example works companies would be used to refurbish boxes used to carry ammo and supplies to France, build/repair buildings at army camps and provide men who were employed by civilian employers involved in the war effort.


Ivor

Hallo Terry

Thank you for the replies, most helpful.



Kind regards

Hallo Kinnethmont

I didn't crack it, I had NO idea!

This is all down to the fine Pals here.

All credit should and must go to them


Kind regards

If the D Cert states Phthisis Pulmonaris (TB), as it appears it is bound to, you have likely cracked it. The report describes this as contracted due to, and aggravated by, his military service. It was also the cause / reason for his medical discharge.

[Ivor Lee]

It is possible that he was used as a platelayer.  I have come across a Works Company being used to build a railway line at a military establishment in Wiltshire.

Ivor