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Submarine E9 in the Baltic.


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#1 Darren Brown.

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 09:29 PM

Hi All,

i have two question i'm finding difficult to find out about the submarine E9 in the Baltic. On the 2nd of July 1915 she torpedoed the German armoured cruiser S.M.S. Prinz Adalbert, on her patrol report it says her coxswain was invalided home after this patrol, i have no idea who this chap is, as he is not on any crew lists i have?

The second question is about the submarine herself. Looking at all the photos of her in 1914/1915 she, and E1, did not have deck guns. I have been trying to find out when these were installed and of what type. Photos dated from 1916 clearly show deck guns, and their type doesn't look too indifferent to a Krupp gun i have seen in books. Only guessing, but i think they were installed by the Russians during January to March 1916, as this was also a period they installed and upgraded the guns on many of their surface warships.

Kind Regards,

Darren.

#2 sadsac

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:26 AM

Darren, E.9 according to MY records ;

E9 Cox CARSLAKE Alfred Ernest CPO but he did not serve E9 until 011015 to 150118 - took over from `your' chap ??? Details P.o.B ; Exeter Devon D.o.B ; 240692 PRO ADM 188 / 657

E9 SMITH Horace Arthur CPO TGM E9 180614 to 010816 although TGM `could' have been COX.
Details P.o.B ; Nottingham D.o.B ; 040486 PRO ADM 188 / 378

PRO MAY give the answer if you download their / his Records. Will leave that to you.
No other records I have re E9 would be a `fit' for your Cox.
Have `full' record of their Submarine Service if you wish to see. Just shout.

Regards Sadsac

#3 Darren Brown.

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:07 PM

Hi Sadsac,

yes you may be right on this one. I will look further into this and get Smiths Papers. He was back in England by the 31-7-1915, i got my notes mixed up though, it was when E9 sank the collier Dora Hogo Thinnes, and blew the bow of the torpedoboat S148 on the 5th of June, this is when they say he confirmed the details of the patrol report. So we have a gap when there was no one to replace him until Carslake arrived. I have always wondered why the chap Cheeseman is lited on both E1 and E9's Russian medal lists for 1915, could this be right? There is a chance Cheesman was used on the Prinz Adalbert Patrol, and won his second decoration then.

Carslake, Alfred Ernest, Coxswain, D/J5430, of Exeter, Devon, Born 24-6-1892.Carslake was not part of the original crew that took E9 out to the Baltic. He departed Liverpool England at 2000 hrs on the 18th September 1915 on the SS Umona and arrived in Archangel Russia on the 29th September 1915. From Archangel he went by train through Petrograd to Reval.

Cheeseman, Charles William, Leading Stoker, # 307325, of Brighton, Sussex, Born 26-10-1884. On Russian medal List. Russian medals on both E1 and E9. Returned home to England 8-6-1917. Went to K22, then K16. Have papers.

As for the guns issues, one source i have never seen is E9's sub Lt Piesons diary, could this have that sort of information in it?

Any info you have on the E9 boys i would love to see, i believe one of those chaps could have come from E18 when she came through, as there is one man, possibily a Petty Officer not accounted for.

Cheers Darren.


#4 Darren Brown.

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 05:04 AM

Hi Sadsac,

got Smith's papers, he's not the chap as he went home with main group in January 1918. Got me beat as to who the coxswain was that was invalided home in 1915.

DB.

#5 sadsac

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 06:09 AM

OK Darren - we keep `at it'. Here is Sub Record of CARSLAKE.
Note ; date of serving on boat are in reverse order 150710 = 10 July 1915 ;

CARSLAKE ALFRED ERNEST CPO S/COX D/J 5430 NE RN NE 100715
TC 150710 DOLPHIN
150824 MAIDSTONE
150907 DOLPHIN
E9 151001 MAIDSTONE
E9 160801 E19
SC 180115 DOLPHIN
C1 180513 DOLPHIN
ADDL 180913 DOLPHIN
ADDL 181130 MAIDSTONE
No 10 181204 SPECIAL SERVICE
U86 190501 AMBROSE
U86 190923 DOLPHIN
ADDL 200301 DOLPHIN
L22 201110 DOLPHIN BUILDING AT BARROW
L22 210308 DOLPHIN
L22 210712 LUCIA
SC 230823 LUCIA
DISCHARGED TO VIVID
GENERAL SERVICE 141123 C S EXPIRES 240632
SENIOR IN RATING 121011 AB 011016 LS 151117 PO 080421 CPO
P.o.B ; Exeter Devon D.o.B ; 240692 ADM 188 / 657

Sadsac

#6 sadsac

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 06:18 AM

Darren, details of SMITH ;

SMITH HORACE ARTHUR CPO TGM P/215511 NE RN NE
091124 - 240514
TC 091124 MERCURY
110701 ARROGANT
120831 DOLPHIN
E9 140618 MAIDSTONE
E9 160801 DOLPHIN E9 BALTIC
SC 180115 DOLPHIN
FORF TGM 180223 LENT VERNON
SC 180719 DOLPHIN
H15 180727 U.S.A.
ADDL 181223 DOLPHIN
No 37 190107 SPECIAL CREW U164
H BOAT TRG 190121 LENT VULCAN H32
H32 190226 VICKERS BARROW
HOSP 190404 DOLPHIN
ADDL 190418 FORTH
R8 190730 FORTH
ADDL 191112
TO VICTORY FOR G.S. 28.11.19 AFO 2924/17
ADDL 240514 DOLPHIN
DISCHARGED TO SHORE. PENSIONED FROM DOLPHIN 3.4.26
P.o.B ; Nottingham D.o.B ; 040486 ADM 188 / 378

Sadsac


#7 sadsac

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 06:26 AM

Darren, one last try. Probably not `your man' but you may like to try.
Again he is `only' TGM, but could have taken over as Temp Cox ??? ;

MILLYARD GEORGE HARRY PO TGM P/230298 NE RN
030688 010314
TC 140301 DOLPHIN
E9 140623 MAIDSTONE E19 T
SC 170306 DOLPHIN
LENT VERNON 170431 TGM COURSE
SC 170630 DOLPHIN
E4 170706 LUCIA
DEMOBILISED 190408
PAY ADDRESS 4 SHORTLANDS RD., KINGSTON-UPON-THAMES.
ADM 188 / 407 P.o.B ; LITTLE BOOKHAM SURREY
C S EXPIRES 030618 SENIOR IN RATING 150502

Over, Sadsac

#8 Darren Brown.

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:28 AM

Hi Sadsac,

i do have a copy of Millyard's actual papers, so he went out with E9 to he Baltic, and he actually went home with my great grandfather in the first draft home, Jan 1917. Of interest to me is you have him listed as being on the submarine E4 in July 1917, so was the depot ship HMS Lucia at Harwich at this stage? My great grandfather also went to E4 so if this is correct it is of great interest to me. I'll have to check which depot ship E4 was trying up too a i do have her logs.

So at the end of the day, there seems another E9 coxswain that has never been accounted for who was home by the end of July 1915, and if you don't hae his name then i don't think we'll ever dig him up.

I think i'm close to identify Millyard in the first draft photo, he wearing a Cross of St George and i have identified him in another E9 shot. I'll send them to you to see what you think.

Cheers Darren.

#9 hussar1814

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 09:07 PM

Hi Darren & Sadsac,

Sorry to threadjack but I am looking for information on my Great Grandfather W. G. Powell I know that he served on E9 and E18 and was awarded St Georges Cross at least on 2 occasions. I have looked at past threads on the site and you both seem very knowledgeable about these Submarines and the actions. I thought that you may like to see a photo we have in the family of him dressed in Russian Naval uniform.


Cheers

Vic Powell



#10 sadsac

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 07:21 AM

Hello Vic, thanks for sending the photo - great stuff.
Is it possible you could have a copy done and send to me ??
With costs of course. Would send you my address etc.
I will see what I have in my files on your GGfather.

Regards Sadsac

#11 sadsac

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 07:27 AM

Hello Vic, find here Submarine Service Record Card of W.G. Powell ;

POWELL WILLIAM GEORGE AB P/ 182354 CSG RN
SM E.18 11.06.16 Z 47 181270 F
PORTSMOUTH 13 PORTSMOUTH 5 - 359
Husband of May Louisa Powell, of 123 Toronto Rd., Buckland, Portsmouth.
Killed in loss of vessel in the Baltic.
Awarded Cross of St. George 3rd Class - Russia.
HMS MAIDSTONE. ADM 188 / 304.
P.o.B ; Soho, London. Occ ; Seaman.
120528 ARROGANT
120613 BONAVENTURE
121015 MAIDSTONE
140401 DOLPHIN
E9 140618 MAIDSTONE
DD 160611 E18 MAIDSTONE

Note dates in ships in reverse order - 120528 = 28.May 1912.

Sadsac

#12 Darren Brown.

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 09:42 PM

Hi Vic,

very nice shot of your great grandfather. You'll be amazed to know in the E18 crew shot taken on the 9-12-1915 that he is sitting next to none other than my great grandfather, signalman Robinson. In the book Forgotten Flotilla they have your great grandfather accidently maked as Charles Sexton, which ironically is the man who was thrown in the cells in October 1915 for theft. So you can take one guess as to which Able Seaman was taken from E9 to replace him, Powell.

I have sent you a personal message as i would have too much information to just to send to you here.

Cheers Darren.

#13 hussar1814

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 07:30 AM

Hi Sadsac & Darren,

Thank you so much for the info you have sent so far, I have a little bit gathered over the past few years and will contact you both off forum over the weekend. In the meantime I am posting picture of W. G. Powell






Thanks again

Vic Powell

#14 Darren Brown.

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 01:05 PM

Hi Vic,

i will look forward to your email, i'm always happy to hear from any E18, or for that matter, any Baltic sub families. I think i'll be able to help you even further with some good leads to follow up. There is a crew photo of E9 taken on the 26-4-1915 and your great grandather has his Cross of St George on in it.

Cheers DB.

#15 Darren Brown.

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:29 AM

Hi Vic,

do you know exactly what William Powell won the the Cros of St George for? I thought it was for the January 29-1-1915 supposed sinking of the S120 as the sub museum has a crew photo dated the 26-4-1915 and he is wearing the cross. Maybe this date on the photo was wrong, as a Russian chap i work with had a look at his Russian record which said something about getting it in July for the attack in June 1915 E9 carried out.

Cheers Darren.

#16 Darren Brown.

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 12:14 AM

Hi Sadsac,

getting back to the Coxswain of E9 that was invalided home, i have found a mention of this chap as previously being on E9 as Horton's coxswain in the Baltic. Do you have anything on him? This came from a listing at sub museum in crew photo of G10 in 1918, and he is on the Russian medal list.

Evans, James Cater, Leading Seaman, #229930 of Barton, Lincolnshire, Born 22-10-1887.


While this chap is listed as her coxswain in December 1917
Mackie, James, Petty Officer Coxswain, #224035, Burnley, Lancashire, born on the 5th of February 1887. In December 1917 he was successfully mentioned in dispatches, has served on E9 since October 1915 and was present at the sinking of four merchant ships in October 1915.

Sayer, Sydney Henry, Able Seaman, # J8975 of Bermondsey, London, born on the 14th of March 1893. He was not part of the crew that took E9 out to the Baltic, joining her in May 1915 and is on the Russian Medal List. In December 1917 he was successfully put up for a special mention, has served in E9 since May 1915 and was present in two successful actions.

Carslake, Alfred Ernest, leading seaman, D/J5430, of Exeter, Devon, Born 24-6-1892.Carslake was not part of the original crew that took E9 out to the Baltic. In December 1917 he was successfully mentioned in dispatches, `has served on E9 since November 1915. He is not mentioned as the coxswain, Mackie is.

Have we got our man?

Kind regards, Darren.



#17 sadsac

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 06:20 AM

Darren, here's details of the Sub Service of CPO CARSLAKE ;
Cox E9 01 Oct 1915 - 01 Aug 1916
Of others & Email will have further search.

CARSLAKE ALFRED ERNEST CPO S/COX D/J 5430
NE RN NE 100715
TC 150710 DOLPHIN
150824 MAIDSTONE
150907 DOLPHIN
E9 151001 MAIDSTONE
E9 160801 E19
SC 180115 DOLPHIN
C1 180513 DOLPHIN
ADDL 180913 DOLPHIN
ADDL 181130 MAIDSTONE
No 10 181204 SPECIAL SERVICE
U86 190501 AMBROSE
U86 190923 DOLPHIN
ADDL 200301 DOLPHIN
L22 201110 DOLPHIN BUILDING AT BARROW
L22 210308 DOLPHIN
L22 210712 LUCIA
SC 230823 LUCIA
DISCHARGED TO VIVID
GENERAL SERVICE 141123 C S EXPIRES 240632
SENIOR IN RATING 121011 AB 011016 LS 151117 PO 080421 CPO
P.o.B ; Exeter Devon D.o.B ; 240692 ADM 188 / 657

Sadsac

#18 sadsac

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 06:42 AM

Darren, further to previous post - please note that the date of CARSLAKE being on E9 makes him at that time as `only' AB. !! So HE would not be COX of E9. That rank comes from when he finished Sub Service ! So it seems you have got E9 Cox (Mackie). I have no record of him or SAYER or EVANS.
Strange I should be defficient in that many as they must not have a Service Record Card at Sub Mus.

Regards Sadsac

#19 Steve Millyard

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 04:45 PM

QUOTE (Darren Brown. @ Jun 22 2008, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Sadsac,

i do have a copy of Millyard's actual papers, so he went out with E9 to he Baltic, and he actually went home with my great grandfather in the first draft home, Jan 1917. Of interest to me is you have him listed as being on the submarine E4 in July 1917, so was the depot ship HMS Lucia at Harwich at this stage? My great grandfather also went to E4 so if this is correct it is of great interest to me. I'll have to check which depot ship E4 was trying up too a i do have her logs.

So at the end of the day, there seems another E9 coxswain that has never been accounted for who was home by the end of July 1915, and if you don't hae his name then i don't think we'll ever dig him up.

I think i'm close to identify Millyard in the first draft photo, he wearing a Cross of St George and i have identified him in another E9 shot. I'll send them to you to see what you think.

Cheers Darren.



Hi Darren (and others on this thread)

I have undertaken some research into the exploits of my grandfather George Harry Millyard and would certainly be able to identify him in any photographs. I'd also be interested in any further info you may have, particularly about their journey home.

Regards

Steve Millyard

#20 Darren Brown.

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 09:14 AM

Hi Steve,

i'm always pleased to hear from the Baltic submarine's families. Yes i'm interested in your grandfather as he went home with my Great grandfather. They were known as the first draft home. Originally there were 12 men in a photo owned by the RNSM, but i have since found a 13th, maybe camera shy. I have been doing some work around when and how they got home. All their papers change over from E19 to HMS Dolphin on the 27-1-1917. This is more than likely when the date of when they stepped onto a boat in a Russian port to begin the journey home. It would seem unlikely this group went through Finland, Sweden and Norway, to do this in such a large group would require plain clothes and false passports, but still possible i guess.

At this time of year Archangel would be iced in which would leave Murmansk as the possible point as to where they left Russia, they had recently opened up a new train line to the port from Petrograd. My grandmother had always told me her father was ill and the group including your grand father wanted him to go with them, so they had to go through Petrograd to get him out of the hospital. She said they were to told to be extremely careful when going through the streets of Petrograd due to the situation there.

So my guess is they left Reval around the 18-1-1917, (approx), and arrived at possibily Murmansk on the 27th, and the date on the RNSM photo for their arrival was the 7-2-1917. I have tracked a group which left Liverpool and arrived in Archangel in September 1915, and the time frame is the same, the main difference being the train rides to Petrograd.

I just find it extremely difficult to nail this one down, sadly none of the 13 men have left a known record to what happened, but then only two families have known to have come forward, yours and mine. E1's Frederick New's family did also make contact with the museum, but that's it, nothing about this. I suppose we could try and see what ships travelled between Russian & England that fit these dates?

I have also sent you a personal message if you need any help with other matters to do with your grandfather, would like to know when he passed away?

Cheers Darren.



#21 Darren Brown.

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 12:18 PM

Hi Sadsac,

getting back to the Coxswain of E9 that was invalided home, Evans, James Cater, Leading Seaman, #229930 of Barton, Lincolnshire, Born 22-10-1887. Have his papers, not the chap as he went home later! So we still have someone not accounted for! It has to be someone on the June 1915 Russian Medal list?

Also 3rd officer Peirson, have his papers which suggest he was on the C23 when E9 went through top the Baltic? He was on E9, moved to C23, and back again to E9 after she got through to the Baltic, well that's if we trust what his papers say. Some rating's papers dates can be a day or two behind when a change of depot ships occurs, but the officers can be weeks out, and in two cases i have found they were about a month and a half behind when they actually changed submarines.

Cheers DB.

#22 sadsac

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 06:44 AM

Darren / Steve, according to my records (Nom Lost Submarines) July 1917 E4 was with 9 Flotilla Maidstone (For Subs) and 10 Flotilla was Lucia.

Don't know if this is of much help, but ???

Sadsac

#23 Igor Ostapenko

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 03:23 PM

QUOTE (hussar1814 @ Jul 3 2008, 02:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Darren & Sadsac,

Sorry to threadjack but I am looking for information on my Great Grandfather W. G. Powell I know that he served on E9 and E18 and was awarded St Georges Cross at least on 2 occasions. I have looked at past threads on the site and you both seem very knowledgeable about these Submarines and the actions. I thought that you may like to see a photo we have in the family of him dressed in Russian Naval uniform.


Cheers

Vic Powell




Your Great Grandfather W. G. Powell

crew e9

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#24 Igor Ostapenko

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 03:30 PM

I have st. George cross of Frederick Charles Langridge D.S.M.,
Leading Stoker, H.M. Submarine E9, Royal Navy

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#25 Igor Ostapenko

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 03:32 PM

DD in Revel 6 July 1916

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