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Vermorel Sprayers


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#1 Peter Doyle

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 09:46 PM

Just a thought - has anyone got a picture of a Vermorel Sprayer (used to dissipate gas). i know there's one in the IWM London, but I saw something that looks suspiciously like one the other day, and want to confirm it. The one I saw has commercial markings and webbing straps; did the ones used on the WF have ordnance markings, or where they pressed into service from more domestic uses? Any help would be gratefully received (to stop me buying the proverbial 'pig in a poke').

Cheers
Peter

#2 centurion

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 10:15 PM

I understand that these may be some kind of anti gas sprayers but if they are Vermerol I don't know

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#3 Peter Doyle

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 10:22 PM

Thanks  - though they look a little more substantial than the ones I have in mind.
Peter

#4 Torrey

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 01:44 AM

Hello, Peter - There is an excellent stereo photograph of a Vermorel sprayer being used in the Keystone series of stereo photos.  [According to my reference book it is serial # 128, catalog #V18899; the photo is titled "Sanitary Work of the battle line - disinfecting the ruin with a patent sprayer."]  Sorry, I don't have it available.  However, if you have access to the keystone series you should be able to find it.  Regards,  Torrey

#5 tocemma

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 09:34 AM

Hi Peter,

This is maybe what you need. The caption for this is " 1st Cameronians using Vermorel sprayer in HQ trench, Bois Grenier Sector, 20th May 1915."

Attached File  img059.jpg   90.23K   2 downloads

The operator has clearly adopted 'the combat stance, by numbers, one' for the photographer whilst his embarassed oppo stands by thinking 'what is he doing now'

I had one of these until I disposed of most of my 'hardware' about two years ago. Mine was in all respects identical except it was missing the transfer (but had the embossed lettering 'Eclair Vermorel' as in the photo) and had been lovingly buffed to a perfect shine by a 'helpful' previous owner. The tank was made of copper. Even the original red rubber hose and correct nozzle were present.
It was the sort of thing most other collectors were underwhelmed by. But I was really pleased to find it as I specialised in gas equipment (mainly masks)
It should be possible to obtain one in a brocante in France. Mine came from the little show at Sailly-Saissel about 12 or so yearrs ago. I repainted the tank in a matt sevice green as per the IWM version which I recall was not by Vermorel.

I wouldn't know if these sprayers were obtained from UK manufacturers, but this type of crop sprayer was pretty common at the time. The fact that the name Vermorel stuck and was used all through the period of service most likely means that the initial purchases were from that Company. My advice would be to find an original Vermorel, but clearly as the IWM example shows others were used.

As an aside for the uniform collectors among us..... look at the dark almost black shirt of the man holding the tank ( I've had a couple of these otherwise normal issue except for the colour ), the detail of his braces and his natty neck scarf. Also note the (probably red) rings around the top of his issue? socks. I've not noticed this before..but towels etc were marked with a red stripe.  Both are wearing the early 'face-mask' style respirators, no doubt because of the concentration of gas they would have to deal with at trench bottom level. Both are also wearing cap comforters.

Regards

Tocemma

#6 tocemma

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 09:45 AM

Oops I forgot, the tank had thin leather shoulder braces attched to two loops at the top. The straps doubled over this loop and were secured by brass studs. One of the straps was fixed at the bottom end but the other strap had a hook attchment that secured to the bottom of the tank. This really was a poor way of doing it as the hook kept coming undone and I'm sure with a full tank would have been awkward to use. Maybe this is why our man is carrying the tank. You can see he has hold of both straps. Of course normally this would be a one man task as with the original use of crop spraying.

TM

#7 tocemma

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 02:46 PM

I thought I had another shot...this one was most likely taken at the same time. The tank on this one seems to be in the original copper colour. The base of the tank which contains the pressurising valve was painted black on mine which seems to be the case here.

Hope this helps further.

TM

Attached File  img061.jpg   81.56K   1 downloads

#8 59165

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 03:10 PM

I cant recall where I got this.Off a mate who had a sprayer,I think.

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#9 Peter Doyle

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 05:43 PM

Superb, gentlemen, thanks a lot!  I am sure the sprayer I have seen fits the bill, but it wasn't marked Vermorel, was of British manufacture, and had webbing straps. Ho hum. Just to be clear, TM, I guess no 'broad arrows' anywhere to be seen on your ex-sprayer?

Cheers
Peter

#10 C.TIERNEY.

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE (tocemma @ Jul 12 2008, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Peter,

This is maybe what you need. The caption for this is " 1st Cameronians using Vermorel sprayer in HQ trench, Bois Grenier Sector, 20th May 1915."

Attached File  img059.jpg   90.23K   2 downloads

The operator has clearly adopted 'the combat stance, by numbers, one' for the photographer whilst his embarassed oppo stands by thinking 'what is he doing now'

I had one of these until I disposed of most of my 'hardware' about two years ago. Mine was in all respects identical except it was missing the transfer (but had the embossed lettering 'Eclair Vermorel' as in the photo) and had been lovingly buffed to a perfect shine by a 'helpful' previous owner. The tank was made of copper. Even the original red rubber hose and correct nozzle were present.
It was the sort of thing most other collectors were underwhelmed by. But I was really pleased to find it as I specialised in gas equipment (mainly masks)
It should be possible to obtain one in a brocante in France. Mine came from the little show at Sailly-Saissel about 12 or so yearrs ago. I repainted the tank in a matt sevice green as per the IWM version which I recall was not by Vermorel.

I wouldn't know if these sprayers were obtained from UK manufacturers, but this type of crop sprayer was pretty common at the time. The fact that the name Vermorel stuck and was used all through the period of service most likely means that the initial purchases were from that Company. My advice would be to find an original Vermorel, but clearly as the IWM example shows others were used.

As an aside for the uniform collectors among us..... look at the dark almost black shirt of the man holding the tank ( I've had a couple of these otherwise normal issue except for the colour ), the detail of his braces and his natty neck scarf. Also note the (probably red) rings around the top of his issue? socks. I've not noticed this before..but towels etc were marked with a red stripe.  Both are wearing the early 'face-mask' style respirators, no doubt because of the concentration of gas they would have to deal with at trench bottom level. Both are also wearing cap comforters.

Regards

Tocemma


Hello,

These 'sprayers' look very familiar, back in the 1960s (my early teens) in Ireland I used to see these used by farmers for spraying anything from weed-killer to potato blight killer.  
They were copper and had a pump action lever on the right as I remember, with the brass spray arm connected on the left by a red rubber tube. They were filled by removing an insert copper lid on the top and inside there was some sort of a pressure chamber through which the liquid was gravity fed before the pressure of the pump action forced it out the spray arm and nozzle. The liquid came out in a fine spray and on a windy day it was necessary to cover your nose and mouth.  The one I was familiar with was very old and the webbing straps were in tatters and with a full load cut into your shoulders.  Also when full if you stumbled walking down the line of the potato drills, the liquid  would slosh about and unbalance you then spill out the sides of the lid (not a tight fit) and onto your back and shoulders.

There was an embossed 'logo' also on the front of it but I cannot remember what it said but have an inkling it was French.

It was locally called a "BUDGET", where that name came from I do not know

Boy! but that sure brought back memories, I can still recall the smell of the 'bluestone' (copper-sulphate and washing soda mixed, now classed as a health hazard) sprayed on the potatoes.

They could be used also to disinfect an area or room e.g. Farmyard, stable so therefore a trench, latrine area etc.

You can still get plastic versions in your gardening/hardware store.

Regards,
C.T.

#11 tocemma

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 06:55 AM

Hi Peter,

No broad arrows on the one I had which was identical to the one in the photos.

Regards

TM

#12 Peter Doyle

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:15 AM

QUOTE (tocemma @ Jul 13 2008, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Peter,

No broad arrows on the one I had which was identical to the one in the photos.

Regards

TM


Thanks indeed!
I'll see if I can underwhelm my nearest and dearest with the addition of one to the collection...
Peter

#13 Tom W.

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:30 AM

The first photo in this thread shows men of the 18th Infantry Regiment, A.E.F., displaying four German Wex M.1917 flamethrowers they captured at Menil-la-Tour on March 6, 1918.

The incident is described in the two articles "U.S. Sentry Traps Foe in Trench" (The Syracuse Herald, March 9, 1918, p. 1., col. 8) and "Yankees Fail to Show Fear at Flame Attack" (The Syracuse Herald, March 9, 1918, p. 2., col. 4-5).  This was the first recorded flamethrower attack against the Americans.

A German shock troop armed with the four flamethrowers assaulted an American trench at night, but they were met with fierce rifle and machine-gun fire.  A nearby American patrol in No Man's Land also rushed to the scene and were able to clearly see the Germans by the bright light of the flamethrower jets. They opened fire with rifles and Chauchat light machine guns and threw hand grenades.

The shock troop dropped their flamethrowers and fled. Two of the flamethrower igniters were still burning, and two had not been activated. The flamethrowers lay in No Man's Land for three days; the Americans made several attempts to recover them but each time were driven back by German machine-gun fire.  Finally a lieutenant and four men of the 18th were successful.  They brought the weapons back to headquarters, where the above photo and one other were taken.  The other photo is a rear view that shows the circular flamethrowers.

All of the flamethrowers had been punctured by bullets, and one was covered in dried blood.

#14 Peter Doyle

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:49 AM

Thought they didn't look particularly sprayer-like...
Peter

#15 Tom W.

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 12:15 PM

Actually, German flamethrowers were designed to spray either flame oil or poison gas.

Flamethrowers were used by Pioneer Battalion No. 11 to spray an unnamed gas at the Russians at Rawa, Poland, on June 6, 1915.

The attack was carried out at 8:20 P.M., resulting in the deaths of 600 Russians. It's not clear if the gas was mixed with the oil and ignited, or sprayed on its own. I don't know how often the Germans sprayed gas with flamethrowers; I've only found the one account.

Once a flamethrower was used to spray anything except flame oil, it was either discarded or relegated to training. To save on oil and igniters, flamethrower pioneers practiced using weapons filled with water.

Here's a good picture of a Wex captured by the Aussies.

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  • Attached File  Wex.jpg   81.74K   0 downloads


#16 Tom W.

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 12:23 PM

The Germans continued manufacturing flamethrowers even after they were outlawed by the Versailles Treaty.  European weapons inspectors from the Inter-Allied Control Commission filed protests, but the Germans explained that they needed flamethrowers to spray insecticide on their crops. The flamethrowers were for peaceful purposes only.

The Commission relented.

#17 Peter Doyle

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE (Tom W. @ Jul 13 2008, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's a good picture of a Wex captured by the Aussies.


all the more interesting as it shows a Lieutenant in what appears to be Aussie pattern OR SD...
Peter