8 replies to this topic

[Oren2k]

Hi,

My name is Oren Harel. I born in Israel and I'm living in New Zealand now. I'm new to this forum and the reason I joined to it is because I'm making a documentary on the New Zealand Mounted Rifle Brigade in general and on the Surafend incident in particular.

After reading few books on the subject, and in this forum, I understand more about the sensitivity of the story. The Surafend incident and the late arrival home are the reason way the NZMR didn't got the heroes welcoming there were spouse to get.

I wish to get in contact with anybody who have family relation with the soldiers of the New Zealand Mounted rifle who fought at the Middle East in WWI and were part of the Surafend incident. The idea is to meet between family member from both side and to attend a peace ceremony on the place the incident happend. As well I would like finding out more personal stories from the time the NZMR were in the Middle East. I would like to follow the trail of the NZMR durin WWI and visit the war cemateries along the way (Gaza, Beer Shava, Jerusalem, Ramahala, Danscuse and more) with families member of soldiers who never come back home.

You more then welcome to contact me on my e-mail address oren2k@gmail.com.

Kind regard

Oren Harel

[stevebecker]

Mate,

You could try this site for this;

NEW ZEALAND MOUNTED RIFLES ASSOCIATION

S.B

[Oren2k]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the website I already visit this one and got some good information from there. I'm reading "Devils on Horses" by Terry Kinloch now and I'm getting some good stories from it.
I'm looking for the personal stories of family members, letters or dairies.

Thanks for the reaply and if you have any more information don't hasitade to share it with me.

Oren

[clinton]

My grandfather was at Surafend as a member of the Auckland NZMR, and maybe I can help you if you are still interested in this topic.
I could possibly share with you previously unpublished material, photos etc on Palestine of this time that I have in safe keeping,  but I would like to understand what your documentary is all about first.

According to my record there were 60 Bedouin killed, (his written record in 1919) with the village of Surafend wrecked so it was no small affair. (I have a photo) It was an incident that I suspect my grandfather was not proud of however at the time he had a real dislike for ongoing Beduoin theft and murder in the dark of night. The outcome was an incident (or retaliation) that happened by NZMR troops in the heat of the moment, but with several motivating causes I suspect...

1) The regulations set by Allenby that protected the Arab and Bedouin from action by his forces to their not infrequent incursions / thefts etc on Aus and NZ troops over the years of war in Egypt and Palestine
2) The murder of one of the NZMR number after hostilities had ceased at the rest camp at Richon (after being chased for theft)
3) The lack of action taken by their superiors to the murder, (or perceived lack of action)
4) Australian forces then egging on the NZMR to do something about it (an noticeably not getting involved themselves as it turned out...(no offence meant to the Aussie Light Horse)
5) The NZMR troopers pent up frustration after years of abuse that they had considered they had no way of getting redress on other than taking direct action and sending a clear message themselves.

There was however no justification ... simply hot blooded retaliation. An unfortunate lesson that reinforces to us the valuable lesson that  'an eye for an eye' is never the answer.....!

Clinton

[Oren2k]

Hi Clinton,

Sorry for the late answer. After a bit of a brake in the research I'm getting back to it. the idea for a documentary on the NZMR came up after my last visit to Israel. I went to the War Memorial in Jerusalem where I found many grave stone with the NZMR symbol on them. After living in New Zealand for 6 years (6 ANZAC days) I never saw or heard a lot about the NZMR campaign in Palestain. I knew there are New Zealand soliders graves in israel but didnt know the story behind it.  

My idea for the movie is to follow the NZMR campign in Palestian. The campagin crossed borders of contries that on this day they are still in war. I would like to use the Surafend incedent and to meet between family member from bouth sides who lost thier loved ones. As to show that eye for eye is not the way to go. I would like to show that this land has been in war for to long and may be it's time to think defferent.

I'm still in the first step of reseaching and gathering some thinking material and your grandfather material can be a big help for my project. If you be interested to meet or to talk you can contact me via e-mail - oren2k@gmail.com or mobile 021 2157893 (not good reception all the time) after 18:00 you can call me at home 07 8657620.

I hope to hear from you in the near future.

Kind regards

Oren Harel

My grandfather was at Surafend as a member of the Auckland NZMR, and maybe I can help you if you are still interested in this topic.
I could possibly share with you previously unpublished material, photos etc on Palestine of this time that I have in safe keeping,  but I would like to understand what your documentary is all about first.

According to my record there were 60 Bedouin killed, (his written record in 1919) with the village of Surafend wrecked so it was no small affair. (I have a photo) It was an incident that I suspect my grandfather was not proud of however at the time he had a real dislike for ongoing Beduoin theft and murder in the dark of night. The outcome was an incident (or retaliation) that happened by NZMR troops in the heat of the moment, but with several motivating causes I suspect...

1) The regulations set by Allenby that protected the Arab and Bedouin from action by his forces to their not infrequent incursions / thefts etc on Aus and NZ troops over the years of war in Egypt and Palestine
2) The murder of one of the NZMR number after hostilities had ceased at the rest camp at Richon (after being chased for theft)
3) The lack of action taken by their superiors to the murder, (or perceived lack of action)
4) Australian forces then egging on the NZMR to do something about it (an noticeably not getting involved themselves as it turned out...(no offence meant to the Aussie Light Horse)
5) The NZMR troopers pent up frustration after years of abuse that they had considered they had no way of getting redress on other than taking direct action and sending a clear message themselves.

There was however no justification ... simply hot blooded retaliation. An unfortunate lesson that reinforces to us the valuable lesson that  'an eye for an eye' is never the answer.....!

Clinton

[Oren2k]

On the last few days I'm getting some e-mails on my research about the Surafend affair. and this is because a new Book is coming up soon in Australia by Paul Daily.

A new book is about to cast dark shadows over Anzac mythology, confirming Australian participation in a massacre of Egyptian civilians previously blamed mainly on Kiwis.

This quote is from the NZ Herald from Monday 27/7 (today).

I believe Paul is bringing up the massacre again for the wrong reasons. are we really want to find who is to blame for it or we want to look forward and say: No more revenge. Nothing good is coming out of it.

When I started my research I never thought to find somebody to blame for something that happened almost 100 years ago in dark time of war. I want to make this movie to promote peace not to add more fuel to the fire of revenge.
I didn't read the book yet but I order it because I believe it'll add to my research but I do think that it's the wrong way to approach the sensitive subject.

I'm still looking for more personal stories for the movie. If anybody know family member or friend that have any stories from the Surafend affair or from the all NZMR campaign in Palestine please don't hesitate to contact me on my e-mail oren2k@gmail.com or mobile 64(0)21 2157893.

Best to all

Oren

[Oren2k]

My grandfather was at Surafend as a member of  the Auckland NZMR, and maybe I can help you if you are still interested  in this topic

  

By Clinton

When speaking to my GG father ( Anzac Mtd Div) about this incident about 15 years ago, he was not keen to give away any details

By Geoff S

After the last news on the new book  called Beersheba, by the journalist Paul Daley I'm getting more and more e-mails asking about my research on the Surafend affair - theage.co.au

My brother is getting the necessary information from the Israeli side (Palestine) and I'm trying to get as much as I can information from the New zealand Australia side. I'm looking for people with family relation to the soldier who took part in this incident.

After more then 10 month of researching the ANZAC campaign in Palestine I totally understand the sensitivity of this subject. My idea for the Surafend affair part in the movie is not to find who to blame.

I find Clinton and Geoff S on this forum and if you can please contact me on my e-mail oren2k@gmail.com I'll really thank you for that. I'll be happy to contact you and explain you what I'm trying to achieve by making this movie.

Kind regard

Oren

[Oren2k]

Dear Clinton
I'm writing you regarding the communication we had in the past on the Great War Forum. As I told you then I was researching for more personal stories for a documentary about the Palestine front during WWI.
Few month ago I got an option from Terry Kinlotch, the writer of "Devils On Horses" to make a fiction movie based on his book. The movie will be based on few characters and there memories from the war.
You told me that your grandfather was at Surafand and you have some unpublished material about it. The story of Surafand will used in the movie to show what horrors the soldiers and locals had to get through at a personal level.
Because it is a fiction movie that showing the simple man and woman and what the "Great War" left in there life I would like to talk to you about getting your grandfather point of view on the story and if he had more personal stories from the rest of the war.

Please don't hesitate to contact me on my personal e-mail oren2k@gmail.com
Hope to hear from you in the near future
Oren Harel  

clinton, on 03 April 2009 - 06:23 AM, said:

My grandfather was at Surafend as a member of the Auckland NZMR, and maybe I can help you if you are still interested in this topic.
I could possibly share with you previously unpublished material, photos etc on Palestine of this time that I have in safe keeping,  but I would like to understand what your documentary is all about first.

According to my record there were 60 Bedouin killed, (his written record in 1919) with the village of Surafend wrecked so it was no small affair. (I have a photo) It was an incident that I suspect my grandfather was not proud of however at the time he had a real dislike for ongoing Beduoin theft and murder in the dark of night. The outcome was an incident (or retaliation) that happened by NZMR troops in the heat of the moment, but with several motivating causes I suspect...

1) The regulations set by Allenby that protected the Arab and Bedouin from action by his forces to their not infrequent incursions / thefts etc on Aus and NZ troops over the years of war in Egypt and Palestine
2) The murder of one of the NZMR number after hostilities had ceased at the rest camp at Richon (after being chased for theft)
3) The lack of action taken by their superiors to the murder, (or perceived lack of action)
4) Australian forces then egging on the NZMR to do something about it (an noticeably not getting involved themselves as it turned out...(no offence meant to the Aussie Light Horse)
5) The NZMR troopers pent up frustration after years of abuse that they had considered they had no way of getting redress on other than taking direct action and sending a clear message themselves.

There was however no justification ... simply hot blooded retaliation. An unfortunate lesson that reinforces to us the valuable lesson that  'an eye for an eye' is never the answer.....!

Clinton

[Rae Stower]

Hi Oren Harel
My father was with the Somerset Royal Horse Artillery from Jan 1918 in Palestine after three years in France. In his eighties he wrote his 'Reminicences' of his life which included his period in WW1 (MC and bar) and in WW2. He relates the Surafend story - he had been returning from dinner at headquarters and saw the village on fire. He might have been lent to Aryshire RHA at the time whose camp was near Surafend. Allenby's reaction to the incident was quite vividly recorded although his memory about some things is a bit blurred.  I will be really interested to see the eventual film you are talking about. Please get in touch if you would like too know more. I may publish these memoirs as part of a family history story, but if any of the information would be useful to you would be happy to share.

Rae Fether