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Kirkee India April 1919


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#1 ddycher

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 03:57 AM

All

I am trying to get to the bottom of which Bn / Regts were stationed at Pashan Camp, Kirkee (Khadki), India at the end of the war but with absolutely no success. I have ref to a TBD 6th Reserve Bn being stationed there but this makes no sense to me as I thought all the TF Reserve Bn's were stationed in the UK.
Bit of a mystery - anybody have any ideas on how to progress ?

Regards

Dave

#2 Patrick ODwyer

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 10:49 AM

I believe Kirkee is part of the Poona (Pune) area so you might include that in your search - just a thought

#3 Paul Berry

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 02:10 PM

Mentioned in a letter home from Pashan (9.2.1918) my grandfather states that he was training with "the Hants ... the 4th Dorsets and ... the 2nds." and talks of marching to Kirkee Arsenal by way of the outskirts of Poona to exchange old rifles for new. He also mentions marching "five miles" to Poona for dental treatment. According to a separate notebook (admittedly incomplete) he was at this time with the 3rd Dorsets before transferring to the 34th Welsh General Hospital at Deolali. You should note, however, that the info regarding the Dorsetshire Regiments does not seem to tally with that shown on http://www.1914-1918.net/dorsets.htm

#4 ddycher

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 04:56 AM

All

Thanks for this. Will check post the Dorsets and Pune leads.

Regards
Dave

#5 Greenwoodman

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 07:43 AM

Although I can find no mention of it in "Order of Battle of Divisions", and am in no way an expert on the Indian contribution, it would seem reasonable for India as a whole to provide support for British battalions serving in Indian Divisions. Both the Hants and the Dorsets had battalions serving with Poona in the early part of the war. The 4th and 2nd Dorsets and the Hants mentioned by Paul may just be reserve elements, training in India, awaiting the call to be drafted as reinforcements to their Battalions in Mespot. And 6th Reserve Bn was probably their parenting unit while in India.
Do you know what TBD stands for Dave? Territorial Base Depot?

#6 Glosters

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 07:46 AM

Indian Army Lists 1919 shows that there were 8 units designated as 'Reserve Battalion (India)'. The officers listed with each of these battalions come from many different regiments. No. 6 has officers from 12 regiments. There is no explanation as to what these battalions were, but my impression is that they were ad hoc units formed in India and had no regimental identity.

Steve

#7 ddycher

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 06:32 PM

All

Seems we have stumbled on yet another mystery. I didn't know there were unaffiliated bn's in India - Reserve or otherwise (Steve - thanks for this) . Any idea how we explore this further ?

Steve - does your list have any from the Devons ? Particularly Devons TF.

Richard - Dont have any idea on what a TBD is - never come across this before - but will reserach futher. If I find anything will get back to you.

regards
Dave

#8 jon_armstrong

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:24 PM

One of the men, I'm researching, Thomas Moore, spent a couple of months in Kirkee in early 1917.

He was called up for service on 15/09/1916, and posted to train with the 3rd (Res) Bn Cheshires on 18/09/1916. On 05/01/1917 he embarked for Bombay, arriving on 05/03/1917 and travelling to the depot at Kirkee the same day.

He spent just short of two months there, before setting sail again on 03/05/1917, eventually joining the 8th Bn Cheshires in Mesopotamia on
09/06/1917.

I'd guessed he was completing his training in India before joining his batalion. Would that make sense?


#9 jillw

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 06:05 PM

Hello,

I am also interested in Kirkee as my grandfather was there in 1918/19.

The following extracts from his service record may add information to the discussion above:

23-9-17 Posted to 9th Battalion Worcestershire Regiment
Same date (different document) Posted to Base Depot, India
7-10-17 Posted No 7 Trg Battalion Belgaum
27-11-17 Arrived Belgaum. No 7 Reserve Battalion (India)
17-10-18 Proceeded to Kirkee for duty at Prisoner of War Camp
25-7-19 Proceeded to B.B.W. Peshawar on field Service
18-8-19 Posted to 1st Yorks, Peshawar
6-10-19 Proceeded to Belgaum for purpose of rejoining No 7 Reserve Battalion
At around this time a document refers to him as being in No 7 Reserve Battalion, Worcestershire Regiment
28-12-19 - Back in UK, certificate granting 28 days 'furlong' refers to him as being in 9th Battalion, Worcesters.

Does anyone know anything about the prisoner of war camp at Kirkee?

#10 jillw

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 06:15 PM

PS

Sorry I neglected to mention something which might be important.

23-9-17 - Posted to 9 Battalion Expdy Force, Mesopotamia. [He never went there as far as I know]

Maybe this fits with post number 5?

I am new to this and I must say find it quite confusing, but your forum has helped.

#11 Colin Y

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 12:51 PM

Hi

I am new in here but Kirkee is where my cousins were born in 1908 and 1910 when my Gt Uncle was stationed there with the 127th Bty RFA.

Why were they there? Anyone know?

Colin

#12 Graham Stewart

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 06:21 AM

Was just browsing when I noticed this regarding mysterious Training Battalions in India. To be honest I was unaware of these battalions myself, but somewhere there will be an Order or Instruction regarding the formation of these units within the Indian Establishment. Regarding the Territorial Base Depots there is a large ACI for 1916 regarding the formation of these units and the units they were to administer, but to my knowledge there was no reference to any such formations for India.

However even though ACI's and AO's are very informative regarding the formation of new units, I'm also beginning to wonder where there additional Instructions and Orders formulated purely for the Indian establishment, in which case these would have been authorised and printed in India, with a copy going to the War Office in England. If this can be proved be the case, then one has to wonder what happend to them. In the meantime the ACI's and AO's we have here are still a good source of information.

#13 Colin Y

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 03:59 PM

David suggested << Training Battalions in India. - somewhere there will be an Order or Instruction regarding the formation of these units within the Indian Establishment.

However even though ACI's and AO's are very informative regarding the formation of new units, I'm also beginning to wonder where there additional Instructions and Orders formulated purely for the Indian establishment, in which case these would have been authorised and printed in India, with a copy going to the War Office in England. If this can be proved be the case, then one has to wonder what happend to them. In the meantime the ACI's and AO's we have here are still a good source of information. >>

Hi again

This is fascinating!

Does this mean that my Gt Uncle may have been recruited and trained in India?

How would I be able to find his enrolment or attestation records?. He served right through WW1 and came out a highly decorated officer.[William Henry BROOKES Birth: c1885 Murree, West Bengal, India Died: 29 Jun 1942 Selly Oak Hospital, Raddlebarn Road, Birmigham latterly Chief Recruiting Officer, Midland Division. Service Number 1965]. He was married in 1906 in Birmingham when he was already a soldier and was evidently posted to Kirkee with his new wife immediately following the wedding. There they had two children in 1908 [yet another William who also served as an officer in the RA in WW2] and 1910, prior to their return to UK in time to be on the 1911 census in Hants, where he is found as a Sgt in 127 Battery RHA.

His WW1 medal cards give no clue of his earlier records indeed they are confusing in some respects - he had two more service numbers! - and his family origins are somewhat conjectural and based upon the CWGC site which shows his death during WW2 and suggests that his father and mother (also William & Elizabeth Brookes) were stil alive.. but where!

Any thoughts appreciated - is this a classical case for a visit to the IOR at BL?

Colin




#14 ddycher

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 03:51 AM

Colin

Via another thread a member suggested that territorial battalions in India in 1915 may have been re-inforced with locally sourced recruitment. I am still trying to work my way through this but it does appear on first glance that it did indeed happen. Will update you if I find more.

Regards
Dave

#15 Colin Y

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 08:37 AM

QUOTE (ddycher @ Jun 28 2009, 04:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Colin

Via another thread a member suggested that territorial battalions in India in 1915 may have been re-inforced with locally sourced recruitment. I am still trying to work my way through this but it does appear on first glance that it did indeed happen. Will update you if I find more.

Regards
Dave


Thanks Dave.

There may be a connection with another William Brookes who was born 1810 and was a Lt Col in India. He cannot have been my WHBs father but perhaps his grandfather so the forename is very established! I did stat looking at Schools in India but no great success! If I can find time Ill have to have a look in the BL.

Ill look forward to anyting you can tell me and thanks again!

Colin

#16 ddycher

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 08:48 AM

Bringing this one back up.

Have now acquired a copy of the 1919 Indian Army Lists that Steve refers to and as he says there are 8 bn's designated Reserve Battalions. These seemed to have beened formed from late 1917 thru 1918. One Bn seems to have filled the role that the reserve battalions did by regiment back in the UK except they served a number of regiments. My interest in the Devons focus's on No. 8 Reserve Battalion (India). The list shows no Devons with any of the other reserve battalions.

Am trying to shed more light on these battalions (especially No.8) wrt what they did, when they were formed and where they were stationed.

Does anyone have any suggestions ?

Regards
Dave

#17 ddycher

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 05:02 AM

A small breakthrough in reseaching on this.

Service records show men being sent out from the 4th Res Bn, Devons in the UK nominally as a draft for the 2/6th Devons but being held at the No.8 Reserve Bn in India. Now seems that these battalions were depots where drafts, returnees, convalescents etc were grouped for battalions on active servive in Mesopotamia.

Regards
Dave

#18 Kelt

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 11:50 PM

Hi Dave,

late into this debate but hopefully its still alive. My GF went to India in 1920 (with 8 Machine Gun Batallion) and thence to Mesopotamia in 1920 before being medically repatriated in 1921. I cannot find much mention of 8 MG Bn in the records after Russia in 1919. Might he have been sent from his Bn in the UK to a Reserve Bn in India, and then sent under other 'colours' to Mesopot?


Kelvin

#19 ddycher

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 01:42 PM

Kelvin

Dont know too much about it - nothing outside what is detailed in the 1919 Indian Army List really - but there was a Machine Corp Depot in India which supplied drafts to Mesopotamia.

This was seperate from the Reserve Battalions. Cant tell you any more than that. Sorry !

Regards
Dave

#20 Kelt

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:34 AM

Thanks Dave

#21 KateH

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:45 AM

Hi there

Don't know if this will be useful but there was at least one military hospital at Kirkee, maybe two, one run by an Australian military matron in 1917 and the other with Australian nurses posted there in 1918. I am unsure whether they were stationary hospitals or general hospitals. From my understanding of nurses in India during WWI, these were all established British military posts, and the nurses looked after both soldies and expat families. Certainly the Australian nurses were posted there to relieve the regular Army nurses (QAIMNS) who went to Mesopotamia, so I see no reason why there were not relief battalions for regular soldiers who wanted to be in a theatre of war (which India was not).

If the area had POWS, quite often there was a POW camp near the hospital to provide labour for the hospital. Men had to be posted there to be guards.

cheers
Kirsty Harris



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