QUOTE (Paul Hederer @ Dec 14 2008, 11:30 PM)
Excuse me, that is simply not true. We've discussed this ad nauseum and you've been shown to be wrong each and every time. Below is the cut and paste from the last in a series of threads correcting you. A description of German field punishment:Obviously lashing a man to an object as punishment was permitted in open places in the German Army until May 1917. This punishment could be inflicted by an NCO.
My translation-- from "Meinungslenkung im Krieg," by Anne Lipp, pages 115-116.
I do not want to "cross swords" with Paul, who I have the greatest respect for. As I probably said before, I put this question to a friend. He is a fairly high-ranking German General Staff officer, and additionally a German diplomat. He is also a published historian. I was astonished to receive about a ten-page essay from him, really a legal brief, in which he went back thru the German military regulations (of course a good question is what was "German" in 1843!) from 1843 to the present, and he said that the punishment that I described was the only physical punishment that was allowed, and that it was as I described, limited, and only perscribed by certain officers with a special certification as a "punishment officer". He did say that, in the German Army as in any army, people will abuse men and break regulations, but that would be a punishable offense.
Regrettably, at the time I was debating this, I had very serious computer problems, and among other things I could not "cut and paste", and I was not able to post this essay. (I will try to go back and find it among about 2000 stored e-mails and post his essay.)
As memory serves, when we kicked this topic about, several people posted anacdotal accounts (a form of historical evidence that I have a lot of respect for), which to me did not prove anything, and you, who I respect greatly, posted your position, as restated above, and created an impression with me.
My own position is that I heard many stories about the German Army in WW I when I was a kid. My father was a very naughty soldier, he hated his company command, who he said were brutal (in other ways) and corrupt, and stole from the men. Pop seemingly shot his company commander (I have found supporting but not conclusive written evidence in his unit's unit history), shot a sergeant in the butt with a wooden "half-sharp" round, and kicked another sergeant in the face and got the sergeant tried for getting kicked. He never mentioned anything of that sort. (Two comments - If he was trussed up like a chicken he might not have told me, although he told me many stories that put him in a foolish light, and generally many distastful things in military history are rarely mentioned.) But my father seemed to have been a good combat soldier, and a generally dangerous person at that time (he loved the war, insanely, within days of finsihing the war he was in a Freikorps using the flame-thrower, and then was in the Schwartze reichswehr, and worked as a bodyguard (I have a photo, an almost shaved head, a P 08 under a skin-tight suit, looking weird but very dangerous, witrh his client), all the EM in his unit carried the P 08, it is quite possible that not many people in the company wanted to tangle with him.) (Re my volubility; I only yesterday actually started writing his biography, putting draft on paper; I also have too much tea in me). He led a Trupp, but never was promoted past Pionier (Private), the only medal he was given during the war was his wound badge for four wounds (they could hardly deny him that-he got his Iron Cross in 1921 from the War Ministry; I have both the medal and also the award document), and even his Militaer=Pass is wierd. (Too much tea.)
Since I found my father's letters in 2001 I have read 2 - 2 1/2 hours a day, mostly in German, hundreds of sources of every sort, but few secondary sources, and in perhaps 4000 hours of reading WW I German sources of all sorts (including stuff written by communists and Spartakists or published by the DDR, not just stuff from saupreussische Buecher
, I cannot recall reading one example of such a punishment. I read (perhaps) 5% as much British sources as German sources and periodically I come across mention of Field Punishment No. 1.
I almost died on the operating table a few months ago, I have nine books planned, and am actively working on three, and I cannot go into this deeply, or go over the same ground that we posted before. I will look for my friend's essay. I have great respect for you, but I think that he is better qualified to comment on this than you, I, and Ms. Lipp put together. He is currently on a remote diplomatic post and almost certainly does not have access to a library of old military regulations.
But anything is possible. I studied the Mexican War (1845-48) for years, and I read about 80 sources before I realized that the US infantry company on war manuvers comprised 98 men and two women. The women were washers, but obviously were also "comfort women", and the topic was distastful so no one (almost) wrote about it. I know that you strongly disagree with me here.