45 replies to this topic

[roel22]

Perhaps I've missed something, but how are the diggers doing? Any new developments? I noticed their website is offline.

Roel

[egbert]

Roel I do not find the other referenced thread, so will post here:
there is news on the diggers in the
Dutch Forum

As I do not speak Dutch at all the only thing I take is they have been sentenced. As you are a native Dutch speaker, could you summarize the article for us please and tell us about the sentence?

[seadog]

Egbert, I agree with your concerns, bearing in mind the multitude of posts relating to the Diggers it would be good to be appraised of the current situation whether good or bad. Looking forward to an update.

Norman

[Pete1052]

The title of the thread in the Dutch forum Egbert provided the link to means "Diggers condemned" or "Diggers convicted."  I don't know whether it means a denunciation in a general sense of the word or a conviction or ruling in a court of law.  This may have something to do with the Diggers' qualifications to be working with explosive ordnance.  Let's wait for a better translation before we jump to conclusions.

[Rockdoc]

A Babelfish translation of the first post suggests that amateur excavation has been banned so condemned rather than convicted looks more likely.

Keith

[seadog]

The silence regarding the current situation with the Diggers is a bit unsettling. Their exploits (which I avidly read) formed a major part of this Forum and I believe the members deserve to be informed of the present situation. The majority of members were supportive of the endeavours of the group and any news would be appreciated. Members will know that the last post on the subject was made in the Diggers topic within Classic Threads on the 4th December 2008.

Norman

[roel22]

The article basically says the diggers are not allowed to dig anymore. Any further excavations will be considered illegal. But nothing is mentioned about a fine or anything.

The rest of the article has been told many times before; about why the diggers should be allowed to continue their efforts and the lack of interest from developers for preserving any WWI-finds because it will take time and money. Piet Chielens (IFF-museum) states the absence of the diggers will only make it more dangerous for builders to do their work. DOVO only acts AFTER shells have been located, they don't actively search for them. Without the diggers it's also very likely human remains will be buried under concrete.

Like Norman I also wonder where Frans has gone...?

Roel

[seadog]

Thanks Roel, do you know what if any alternative to the Diggers has been put in place? It seems to me that if you ban the Diggers for what must have been decided as valid reasons then you will also need to address the future discovery of battlefield sites such as collapsed dugouts, trench systems and yes human remains. In other words goodbye Diggers, what now?

Norman

PS It would really be good to hear from Frans, he has posted some remarkable photos etc in the past for which I am very grateful.

PPS I appreciate that there is already a major topic on the Diggers in being so if the Mods wish to transfer these posts to that one please do so.

[roel22]

I'm no expert on this subject, but without the diggers I think it's up to the professional archeologistst to do the digging. And I don't believe they will be very interested, mainly because most things about WW1 (trench-construction, weapons, tactics) are well documented. Besides that most archeologists believe the best way to preserve a historical location for future generations is to keep it where it is - beneath the ground. Saying that, the Diggers focused on sites which were going to be developed. Which basically would mean anything under ground would disappear - leaving nothing for future generations.

Roel

[seadog]

Thanks for that Roel. Perhaps I am being a bit naïve here but would it have not been a good idea to retain the expertise and enthusiasm of the Diggers by allocating to them a professional archaeologist when necessary to undertake the appropriate recording of sites and finds and also  to fund them in a proper manner. The unexploded ordinance would still be dealt with by the Bomb Disposal guys and then everyone would be happy, or is this far too simplistic a view? I believe that now there is the worse of two worlds and when a site is discovered the finds will be disposed of and the ground restored so that all traces of the unique history of WW1 will, as you say, disappear for ever. Perhaps a member with much more knowledge of the subject than I will kindly inform us of the new situation now that the Diggers are prohibited from exploring and excavating sites.

Norman

[egbert]

Thanks for the summary Roel.
Although-------something is not right. The work of the diggers was outstanding and they certainly have nothing to hide, right! But as I saw by accident Frans from the diggers reading this thread yesterday and a whole bunch of "forum pals in Ypres" last week, having visited Frans, and probably also reading this thread - not responding? Why is nobody enlightening us , tell us first hand acct what is the future situation???????
Is there something cooking in the pan which is not ready for the public, which shall not be spoken of?
I think the excellent work of the diggers and our support for them deserve some first hand explanation by those affected or by those who visited him

[seadog]

Hear, hear Egbert a very good point, hopefully this will elicit a response. To my mind it is not right that the situation with regard to the Diggers is as it were "left in the air" one only has to remember the multitude of human remains that they rescued from the Boesinghe dig to understand how valuable a function that this group has been undertaking.

Norman

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

The silence regarding the current situation with the Diggers is a bit unsettling. Their exploits (which I avidly read) formed a major part of this Forum and I believe the members deserve to be informed of the present situation. The majority of members were supportive of the endeavours of the group and any news would be appreciated. Members will know that the last post on the subject was made in the Diggers topic within Classic Threads on the 4th December 2008.

Norman

Norman , it was noted towards the final postings of De Diggers , by some , of the very serious concerns reagarding the actions of this group. The group was always well meaning but also some of their exploits were most dangerous to say the least. For me the good outdid the danger i guess but i for one if i was ever  to visit the band in " action " would only watch from a distance.

[59165]

& finally,Esther...
sausages

[hudsonswhistle]

Norman , it was noted towards the final postings of De Diggers , by some , of the very serious concerns reagarding the actions of this group. The group was always well meaning but also some of their exploits were most dangerous to say the least. For me the good outdid the danger i guess but i for one if i was ever  to visit the band in " action " would only watch from a distance.

For someone that has supposed to have left the forum your not doing a bad job of staying off of it  

[seadog]

Thanks for the responses, I have no wish to stir up any controversy I am just a little disappointed that there has been no definitive response from the group. When you consider the amount of postings regarding their excavations and the level of moral and no doubt practical support that they enjoyed from members of this forum it would surely be in order that a situation report be posted even if the effect on the groups activities have proved to be negative. Bear in mind that there are 80 pages devoted to the group on the forum so hardly a minor topic.

I have also posted this under the main topic.

Norman

[egbert]

Very well said Norman

[tafski]

Thanks for the summary Roel.
Although-------something is not right. The work of the diggers was outstanding and they certainly have nothing to hide, right! But as I saw by accident Frans from the diggers reading this thread yesterday and a whole bunch of "forum pals in Ypres" last week, having visited Frans, and probably also reading this thread - not responding? Why is nobody enlightening us , tell us first hand acct what is the future situation???????
Is there something cooking in the pan which is not ready for the public, which shall not be spoken of?
I think the excellent work of the diggers and our support for them deserve some first hand explanation by those affected or by those who visited him

Egbert

I am sure  the  diggers will make a statement when they feel it is appropriate also as you stated a bunch of  forum pals visited frans, to be honest that was a private visit  and has nothing to do with  the likes of you, if you feel so strong about what is going on why not contact Frans yourself ????

Tafski

[Steven Broomfield]

Mods (and I have put ths on the other thread): as we have - effectively - two threads running on the same topic, would it make sense to close this one, or merge it with the other?

[egbert]

Egbert

I am sure  the  diggers will make a statement when they feel it is appropriate also as you stated a bunch of  forum pals visited frans, to be honest that was a private visit  and has nothing to do with  the likes of you, if you feel so strong about what is going on why not contact Frans yourself ????

Tafski

Tafski, my point is: I do not want to hear opinions or rumors, I am just interested in plain facts, facts, facts. I mean those facts that are available for the public and I am sure there are facts, disclosable to the public like the exact outcome of the verdict, future plans or similar stuff being presently publicly (unfortunately in Dutch language  which sadly most of us here may not understand at all) discussed in Flanders . I am sure that Frans or you guys can "reveil" just the stuff which is ok for the public. But that I never heard.  
I am not asking for any hidden agendas or stories which should be kept private presently if the disclosure would harm the future of the diggers.
Again, just some facts as we all liked and supported the work of the diggers in Flanders,  and yes now demand some information. Is that too much asked for?

[tafski]

Tafski, my point is: I do not want to hear opinions or rumors, I am just interested in plain facts, facts, facts. I mean those facts that are available for the public and I am sure there are facts, disclosable to the public like the exact outcome of the verdict, future plans or similar stuff being presently publicly (unfortunately in Dutch language  which sadly most of us here may not understand at all) discussed in Flanders . I am sure that Frans or you guys can "reveil" just the stuff which is ok for the public. But that I never heard.  
I am not asking for any hidden agendas or stories which should be kept private presently if the disclosure would harm the future of the diggers.
Again, just some facts as we all liked and supported the work of the diggers in Flanders,  and yes now demand some information. Is that too much asked for?

Egbert
Do not Demand  anything of me you have no right what so ever, who do you think you are  demanding information if you require information do as i told you earlier contact Frans yourself ,as my last visit with forum pals  was a private visit to Frans and his  Family and has nothing to do with you or  any one  else on this forum so take the advice i have given you and contact Frans direct,

tafski

[Desmond7]

Thread re-opened.

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

Egbert
Do not Demand  anything of me you have no right what so ever, who do you think you are  demanding information if you require information do as i told you earlier contact Frans yourself ,as my last visit with forum pals  was a private visit to Frans and his  Family and has nothing to do with you or  any one  else on this forum so take the advice i have given you and contact Frans direct,

tafski

I am sure you are not in possesion of the facts or the brief to divalge them Tafski so have no fear. Egbert was talking generally which i guess you did not pick up on.

[John Hartley]

I am sure you are not in possesion of the facts or the brief to divalge them Tafski so have no fear. Egbert was talking generally which i guess you did not pick up on.

I'm sure Egbert was talking generally and on a subject that a number of us are interested in, as we've kept up to date with previosu Digger threads. Something has obviously caused Frans to stop posting on the Forum about the Diggers' work.

Maybe tafski doesnt know what going on. Maybe Frans didn't mention it when they met. Maybe tafski does know and doesnt want to be a "kiss and tell".

But it really is most strange that no-one's saying anything. No doubt it'll all come out in the wash. or maybe not. But perhaps we're all wasting too much time giving a fuss one way of another.

John

[jay dubaya]

patience is a virtue

Jon