38 replies to this topic

[Neil Mackenzie]

I started doing some work on this a while back but never completed it,. It is on my list of things to do at some stage. These are my notes which may be of some use.



GREAT WAR

MEMBERS OF THE IRISH BRIGADE



The following notes are an analysis of the men who joined the Irish Brigade (IB) at Limburg Prisoner of War Camp between December 1914 and May 1915. The men listed below are taken from a précis of the evidence compiled by MI5 held at National Archive, Kew in file WO141/9.

However, it should be realised that not all of them would have been members of the IB as explained below.

The précis of evidence lists 65 men. The 48 men numbered in the range 1-50 were on a list of men who had joined the IB as provided by 2 NCO’s at the camp in the Royal Munster Fusiliers.

A number of other men were on a list provided by the American Embassy dated 28/6/1915 to C.2.Cas (?) of men who had been transferred from from Limburg to Zossen. As 47 men on the list were also on the list provided by the Royal Munster Fusiliers it was assumed (at least initially) that ALL men on the list were likely to be members of the IB. However, as explained below, this is erroneous and not all of the men on the American Embassy list had actually transferred to Zossen.

Unfortunately, the list available in WO141/9 only lists the men’s surnames with one or more MI5 file references against each man – this makes precise identification difficult. However, some of the men can be identified using other information in the file.


The following men were in the range 1-50 and I have been able to check their MIC and believe their medals were forfeited and they were POW’s they can be accepted as having been in the IB (at least as far as MI5 were concerned). The number against each man is his number in the MI5 file.

2. Pvt Joseph Stacey (7895) – Ryl Dublin Fusiliers

3. John Curry (11324) – Ryl Dublin Fusiliers

4. Pvt Henry Burke (11438) – Ryl Dublin Fusiliers

21. Cpl Timothy Quinlisk or Quinless (10435) – Ryl Irish Reg

22/23. Pvt Michael Keogh, down as Kehoe on his MIC (10687) – Ryl Irish Reg, strangely he is down as having a replacement 1914 Star issued

22/23 Pvt Patrick Keogh  (10771) – Ryl Irish Rifles

36. Pvt John Greer (7708) – 2nd Ryl Irish Rifles

37. Pvt Robert Scanlon, down as Scanlan on his MIC (7576) – 2nd Ryl Irish Rifles

38. James Carroll (7453) – Ryl Irish Rifles

39. Pvt Patrick McGrath (6208) – Ryl Irish Reg, although his MIC also mentions he was in Worcestershire Reg (74660).

53. Pvt Thomas Wilson (11350) Royal Dublin Fusiliers. He is believed to have got a local German girl ‘into trouble’ and joined the IB as a result. His medals, originally forfeit, were restored in 1950 and the 1914 Star in 1951.

The other men in this group who I am fairly certain were members but whose MIC’s I have yet to check are:-

12. Pvt Joseph Dowling (8243) – Connaught Rangers

14. Michael O’Toole (3964) – Irish Guards

35. Pvt Daniel Bailey (7483) – Ryl Irish Rifles



Other men still need investigating

1. Mahoney

5. Ryan

6. Forde

7. Mallon

8. Sweeney

9. Barnacle

10. Murphy

11. O’Neill

13. Daly

15. Kennedy

16. Houlihan

17. Long

18. McGrath

19. Meade

20. Rahilly

26. Waters

27. Sweeney

28. McCarthy

29. McMahon

30. Dowling

31. Tracey

32. McCabe

33. O’Donoghue

34. Carr

35. Baily, Bailey or Bayly

40. Davis

41. Berry

42. Lynch

43 Hart(e)

44. Collins

45. Golden

46. Carr

47. Granahan

48. Delamore

49. Brandon

50. Fulford

51. Kavanagh

52. O’Brien

54. Beverley (signature on seditious pamphlet) – this was the alias of ?????

55. McMullen

Men not on original list but on one received via American Embassy as men having moved from Limburg to Zossen. However, a number of them can be proved to have died at Limburg and are buried at Niederzwehren Cemetery and therefore it suggests the ‘list’ covered more than just men who had moved to Zossen and therefore more than just men of the IB. These men are also in adjacent plots at Niederzwehren

56. O’Callaghan

57. O’Callaghan

58. Connory – died at Limburg 19/5/1915. Possibly F Connory (8220), 2nd Bn Ryl Irish Regiment in III.J.15 at Niederzwehren.

59. McDonagh

60. Kane – died at Limburg 15/5/1915. Possibly W Keane (6709), 2nd Bn Ryl Irish Regiment in III.K.5 at Niederzwehren

61. Kenns – died at Limburg 17/5/1915. Possibly P Kerins (6169), 2nd Bn Ryl Irish Regiment in III.J.13 at Niederzwehren.

62. L/Cpl Murphy – died at Limburg 16/5/1915. Possibly L/Cpl DP Murphy, 2nd Bn Royal Munster Fusiliers in III.K.6 at Niederzwehren

63. Nolan – died at Limburg 24/5/1915. Possibly PWJ Nolan (4747), 2nd Ryl Irish Regiment in III.K.7 at Niederzwehren

64. Pvt F Sewell (3152) Irish Guards

65. Pvt John Davis (3296) attd 1st Leinster (sent letter from Zossen and rumours he was in IB)

66. Kavanagh South Irish Horse

67. Quinn

[Don Dickson]

Irish Brigade
I too am working through this subject and "noted" that  6902 Pte James Scanlan of the Leinster Regiment, who gave testimony in the POW interviews, has his name recorded as SCANLON on his MIC. Now in Neil's post list, #37 7576 Scanlon has an MIC in the name of Scanlan, quite a coincidence? It may well be why 6902 Scanlan was interviewed. The interview documents WO 161/98/652 for 6902 Scanlan are very specific in spelling his name as SCANLAN. In my own database of Leinster Soldiers I can but identify this man as Scanlan AKA Scanlon as no other military records have surfaced to confirm the correct name.

On another matter I have been struggling to identify a Pte Berry 2/Leinsters who was reported as a member of the IB by 6902 and is #41 on your detailed list. I have identified 6858 Pte James Berry who according to his MIC was a POW but there is no record of any medal recovery. I am therefore concluding the that these two persons were one and the same and that there was insufficient evidence to confirm Pte Berry as an active member of the IB. Again no other military records for Pte Berry have surfaced.
The alternative view is that the evidence provided by 6902 Scanlan, that described Berry as "a boy crying with hunger ... who was never seen in Brigade uniform" may have led to leniency by the authorities at some point. His MIC does however indicate that he was discharged without giving a reason. There is I believe some heresay evidence that supports the view that the majority of IB members were so treated.

[Doug Johnson]

Pte James Wilson (WO161pages 330-340) names three men;

Pte Burke Dublin fus
Pte Mahoney Dublin fus
Cpl Keogh 18th Royal Irish (he thought)

The last he names as a Cpl which he mentions twice.  Was he a Cpl or a self promoted Pte?

According to "To Make Men Traitors" five were promoted in the Irish Brigade, 1 sergeant major, 1 assistant sergeant major and 3 sergeants.  In addition it lists 3 corporals, 3 lance-corporals and 43 privates which makes 54 in total.  Also mentioned is that 50 arrived at Zossen on the 7th June 1915 and a further five on 16th July, which is 55.  However 1 man arrived with a broken leg and was admitted to the hospital which may account for the difference.

50 uniforms were issued at Zossen and three of the men arriving on the 16th brought uniforms with them from Limburg which is presumably why Wilson was able to describe it in detail.  NB it also mentions two photographs of the brigade.

Doug

[thomas1]

Captain Robert Monteith was sent out to command the Irish Brigade in 1915, he kept a diary which is printed in his book, "The Mystery Man of Banna Strand" by Captain Monteith. Well worth a look for his view of events in trying to recruite the Irish Brigade and indeed conditions in the POW camp at Zossen and Limberg. It is available in most libraries--example of some extracts from his diary

03/X1/15
Commenced recruiting campaign at 9 am. and continued till noon. Started at 2 pm. and worked till 5 pm. These hours were chosen so as not to interfer with meal hours of men. men seem indifferent, a lot of them are absolutely impossible

15/X1/15.
My uniform is finished, cost about 500marks, (25 pounds). No permission as yet to wear it. Sergt. Major Keogh from Zossen has joined to help in the work.

[corisande]

"The Mystery Man of Banna Strand"

I have been trying to buy a copy of this for some time, but not available on Amazon or Abe !

[thomas1]

Not sure where you live,  But if you live in Ireland your local library should be able to order it. Failing that I have a photocopy of his Diary, if you pm me your home address I will post you a copy. However try get the book I thing there is more info in it

[corisande]

Thomas

I live in Spain, so the local library is unfortunately no on!

Thanks for the offer. Do not worry about the diary, I will get the book in the end

I have "Casements Last Adventure" by Montieth himself. Have you read that and if you have does it have much more on the whole situation, I assume it daes

[thomas1]

to be honest I can't remember-I read it sometime ago

[corisande]

I have found this photo of Robert Monteith, the author has added "pre 1916"

Can anyone identify the uniform. It is certainly Monteith, I have compared it with his photo in his book

[corisande]

The Mystery Man on Banna Strand

Someone gave me this link to a scanned online version of the book if anyone else is interested in reading it. Never easy to read books on your computer screen, but beats not having it at all!

[corisande]

I still get back to Casement's Irish Brigade from time to time, and am looking at Quinlisk at the moment. I have been through the previous threads here that include him.

My current take on him is here

Grateful to anyone who can add to that page.

I have a few particular questions.

1. A lot of the info after the discovery of Quinlisk's body was given by a nameless RDF fellow Irish Brigade prisoner. It has to be one of 6 men, does anyone know who that man  actually was?

2. He was certainly shot by the IRA. I have found both Thomas McCurtain and Mick Murphy given as executioner. I have been unable to find out if Quinlisk had an impromptu "trial" or not. There was not much doubt that he was a double agent. Any further leads?

3. Strangely he was wearing, when executed, an overcoat loaned by Lt I H Cunningham. I have not been able to see who he was. Possible a nom de plume for another agent. Any ideas  on Cunningham?

[corisande]

Sometimes I think I am talking to myself about Quinlisk :-)

Anyway I have found out a lot more about his execution from a thread I started on Rootschat

My web page on Quinlisk has been updated with the tale of his execution

Again if anyone can add anything, please add the info

[KGB]

Private P Goggin, 6268 is a relative of my Grandfather (paternal) enlisted Waterford, fought at Mons 1914. In addition I might be able to help out with 7567 Pte James Berry, Royal Irish Rifles. Awarded a SWB he was a POW.

[wig]

Link to an article on the trial of Casement

http://bit.ly/TFU3rz