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#1 Greyhound

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 02:41 PM

Can anyone please help me to fill in some background on one of the men I'm researching please.

He is 8758 Sjt Allen John Jones of the 2nd Btn Welsh Regiment, dow 22 Oct 1914. He was born in Skenfrith, Monmouthshire in 1885. I have his CWGC and SDGW details plus his MIC, and he appears to have been serving at a military base in Pembroke in 1911, although I haven't downloaded any details.

He married in Berkshire in Q4 1913, and I need to join the dots to work out how he came to be there and meet his missus. Would the Welsh Regiment have been training in Berks at some point, for instance? There was an army manoeuvres camp at Churn, and I'm wondering if this is the answer.

#2 Paul Nixon

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 02:57 PM

Greyhound

I can add to your information that his number dates to 1905, so that's when he joined the Welsh Regt.

Paul

#3 Greyhound

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 03:49 PM

Thank you, Paul! That's very useful, these little details all help build up the picture.

I have just rediscovered a note that he had a brother living locally, so this would explain a lot and the pre-war battalion movements unlikely to have a bearing now.

I don't suppose anyone has any war diary extracts for Allen's battalion for Oct 1914? ph34r.gif think I may have looked before, but off to check ...

#4 SteveJ

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 06:50 PM

Hi,
I have details from the history of the regiment. I'm in work tonight, but if no-one else has replied with anything by tomorrow, I'll dig something out.
Cheers,
Steve.

#5 Greyhound

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 06:58 PM

Thank you, Steve, I'd appreciate that. I can't find the war diary on the NA site. As he was killed so early, his story will be short, sadly.

#6 Chris_Baker

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 07:17 PM

2nd Battalion moved to Bordon Camp from Pembroke Dock in 1912.

Going back to 1905:
Pembroke Dock 1910
South Africa 1906
Quetta 1904.

Hope that helps a bit.

#7 evolution

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:30 AM

Hi in July 1914 the 2nd battn (69th Foot) were at Aldershot carrying out brigade training with 3rd Bgd, and on the 1st of Aug were ordered to their peace station, Bordon, on the 4th mobilisation was ordered. The battalion was very much below establishment and a considrable percentage of the men were too young to take the field. 571 men from the reserve were required to bring the battn up tp establishment., mobilisation was complete by 5 pm 8th.

On the 12th the battn reached Southhampton boarded the Braemar Castle and arrived at Harve at 6am next day.

#8 evolution

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 12:02 PM

Towards the end of September early Oct the 2nd Battn was at Beaulne on the Chemin des Dames, I can find em on the 18th Oct where they detrained at Hazebrouck, they were then billeted in a convent around Pop, where they remained till the 21st, they then advanced on the extreme left towards Langemarck, I got loads of there where abouts then. (A Capt Rees has left a lot of information about the early engagements of the 2nd Welsh) but cant find much of there where abouts after leaving the Aisne, or the actual date they left! What date was he killed? We can then work out where he was!

#9 Greyhound

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 12:16 PM

Fantastic detail, pals, thank you so much.

Here's Allen's obit from the local paper which I had found and then forgotten to type up - hence the vital brother info!


The news was received on Friday evening last of the death of Sergt. Jones, who was killed at the front in the recent fighting. The deceased, although not a native of West Ilsley, was well known here, and was a frequent visitor to his brother, Mr. W. Jones, and less than a year ago he married a daughter of Mr Eli Elliott of East Ilsley. Sergt. Jones was a non-com of the Welsh Regiment, and was a good soldier, as evidenced by the prizes he won for shooting, etc. He was also proficient in signalling and was attached to the staff when leaving for the front. All honour! he died fighting for King and Country.

(He dow 22 Oct 1914, presumably at 1st Ypres - he is on the Menin Gate.)

#10 SteveJ

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 02:56 PM

Hi again,

Here is an extract from the History of the Welsh Regiment by T.O. Marden;

20th October. On 20th October, the Germans attacked on most of the Allied front in great force, driving the French Cavalry on the left behind the Houthulst Forest, and causing the 3rd Cavalry Division also to fall back, as its left was exposed. In the centre the 7th Division held its own, but on the right the 6th Division was heavily attacked round Ennetieres by three German Divisions, and eventually fell back one-and-a-half to two miles, digging in on the line which was to be held by the British during four weary years. The 2nd Division was pushed up to support the left of the 7th Division, and the 1st Division moved to the neighbourhood of Poperinghe, where the 2nd Welsh were billeted and were most hospitably treated at a convent.
21st October. The enemy had not yet shown great strength in the front held by the 7th Division, nor were their troops reported to be well trained, and Sir John French therefore ordered an advance on the 21st towards Roulers by the 1st and 2nd Divisions, while the 7th Division held their ground. The 2nd Division advanced on Passchendaele while the 1st Division, on the extreme left, moved on Langemarck.
The 3rd Brigade, which provided the Advanced Guard, captured this village about 9 a.m. with the Queen’s and S.W.B., the Gloucesters being in support and the Welsh in reserve. Pushing beyond the village, the leading Battalions found the enemy in strength, and the Gloucesters were sent forward to prolong the line to the left.
Shortly afterwards a call for assistance came from the Queen’s, who were hard pressed, so Colonel Morland, informing Battalion Headquarters of his action, sent up first “D” Company (Captain Rees) and then “B” Company (Captain Berkeley). The village and roads were being shelled very heavily, but both companies got to their objective practically intact, thanks to the clever leading of these two Company Commanders.
Lieutenant Melville, who had gone into the village to reconnoitre for his machine guns, and had climbed the church belfry, had a very narrow escape, being shot at by a German concealed in the spire, but the fighting round the village was too brisk to waste time on a single man. However, the incident had a sequel as the spire was demolished the next day by the Germans, as related later by Captain Rees.
The French Cavalry were driven out of the forest by noon, and the flank of the 3rd Brigade exposed. The Divisional Commander thereon sent the 1st (Guards) Brigade to form a defensive flank back to the Ypres Canal making thus a dangerous right angle, both sides of which could be enfiladed.
It was thought inadvisable to accentuate this danger by holding the forward positions which the Queen’s and S.W.B. had so gallantly won, and at dusk the whole line was withdrawn to about 300 yards to the north-east of Langemarck, the S.W.B. being on the right, the Welsh in the centre, and the Gloucesters on the left, thrown back somewhat to connect with the 1st (Guards) Brigade. The Queen’s were brought into reserve.
Elsewhere on the front the Germans made heavy attacks on Armentières and Messines, without much success.
It was evident that, far from advancing, the Allies would have to strain every nerve to maintain their positions, for they were holding a long line weakly and without reserves, while entrenching tools and barbed wire were practically nonexistent. The Allies were for the moment definitely on the defensive. The 1st Division was strung out on a front of four miles in small groups holding shallow trenches, which were no protection against shell fire. [Seven and one-third British Divisions and five Allied Cavalry Divisions all weakened by much fighting were opposing eleven German Divisions (eight of whom were fresh) and eight Cavalry Divisions on a front of 35-36 miles. (Official History, Vol. II. p. 167.)]
22nd October. The next day was fairly quiet except for the shelling of Langemarck by 8-inch howitzers and field guns. Captain Rees records that in four hours the village was reduced to ashes.
“I saw a field gun shell strike the spire of the church just below the cross, and send the cross 20 yards in the air. The church shortly afterwards caught fire and went up in a sheet of flame. A little later, Colonel Morland and Battalion H.Q. came to my Company H.Q. He had had two houses blown down over his head in succession in the village, and, as he remarked, it was safer in the front line.”
The Battalion, being outside the village, had very few casualties.


I have another booklet of how the Welsh and Worcesters saved the day at Ypres, but I'll have to search for that!

Steve.

#11 Greyhound

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 03:29 PM

Wonderful, thank you Steve.

I won't of course be able to include all this detail because of space limitations, but when writing short accounts it's always so much better when you know more than you can put down! I can now be much more confident about what I do say.

Thank you all again.

Attached File  Allen_Jones.JPG   5.02KB   0 downloads

#12 evolution

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 01:36 PM

On the 21st the 3rd Brgd was withdrawn to about 300 yrds to the N/East of Langemarck, the line on the 22nd was fairly quiet (quiet for them I bet, would'dt be fer us lol), except that fritz went to work on demolishing Langemarck and there were few casualties, so should be fairly easy to find out if he was killed this day! or died of wounds, take a look at long trail at war dairy.
The 23rd was when fritz attacked in great force, from Koekuit, 2000yrds north of Langemarck, and the massacre of the innocents took place, 2nd battn.
I like going here cos its fairly easy to work out where the 69th lines were.

#13 evo0386

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 10:44 PM

QUOTE (evolution @ Jul 2 2009, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On the 21st the 3rd Brgd was withdrawn to about 300 yrds to the N/East of Langemarck, the line on the 22nd was fairly quiet (quiet for them I bet, would'dt be fer us lol), except that fritz went to work on demolishing Langemarck and there were few casualties, so should be fairly easy to find out if he was killed this day! or died of wounds, take a look at long trail at war dairy.
The 23rd was when fritz attacked in great force, from Koekuit, 2000yrds north of Langemarck, and the massacre of the innocents took place, 2nd battn.
I like going here cos its fairly easy to work out where the 69th lines were.

I have been trying to find out about the 2 Welsh as my grandfather served with them, he was 3 welsh and deployed to france in oct 1914, his name was william albert huish, I have more details, I am trying to track any Regt orbats. many thanks

#14 Soren1915

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 05:04 AM

My Gt Uncle was MPD 20/Feb/1915 and is listed on the Menin Gate too, 1st Bn tho....