274 replies to this topic

[seadog]

Peter all well and good, I am sure that none of us would be abusive as that would get us nowhere. Trouble is who is responsible for this SNAFU then, somebody must be but sure as hell nobody will own up to this or take any responsibility for the complete foul-up. This is the nature of the beast we are dealing with. Sorry to be so negative but you have no assurance whatsoever that your queries will reach anyone responsible.

Norman

[ian turner]

It was always a shame that the CWGC lists were not fully searchable as a database, in the same was as SDGW for instance. I know the original aim was to supply an online search for relatives, rather than for the general research we undertake. But, in the fullness of time, it is the researchers who will be using the site the most (ie. The Great War years have already reached that stage). A great pity the opportunity was not taken to revamp the whole site, and not just "tart it up" for whatever reason.

And much sympathy to those whose great works have been fouled up by this change.

[Martin Elliget]

Type "Wellogate" into a cemetery search and it only shows the first page of casualties - try as I may there is no way I can open the final listing of casualties.

You're right Derek. Of the 50 casualties for Wellogate, I can only get it to list 40.

[ian turner]

Wellogate - I think it is not displaying casualties S-V. It shows the rest, which total 40.

[tootrock]

Second Unit details are not shown in Casualty details, but are there when one looks at the certificate, both normal amd PDF versions - at least in the case of one of my relatives.

Tootrock

[apwright]

If the age of the casualty is Unknown, the PDF version says "Age: 0"...  

Adrian

[Martin Elliget]

I've just gone back and re-read this thread and have tried to summarise the problems, so as to provide a clear, concise picture of where the aggravation is. This list is generally in chronological order, not priority order, though I am assuming that problem 1 and 2 are pretty much the highest priority for most. Can you please review and let me know of any additions or mods and I'll update. There are one or two notes for those who reported problems to clarify.

1. The syntax of the casualty URL has changed, thereby breaking over 1.3 million links on numerous memorial websites, not to mention those in war research forums, personal research collections, Wikipedia, etc.

Old: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2479710
New: http://www.cwgc.org/CasualtyDetails.aspx?casualty=2479710

There is no obvious reason for the new search not being backwards-compatible with the old version, i.e. maintaining the same URL syntax for casualty details.

2. You cannot jump directly to a casualty details screen from a link or a shortcut. The new URL syntax makes use of a session key which is only valid when using the new search facility.

3. The change has affected the version of Geoff's Search Engine for WW1 used by the In From The Cold Project volunteers and Geoff's Search Engine for WW2.

4. You cannot click Back to refine your search - you have to start your search over again.

5. There are some reports of searches returning "zero or too many matches" and the correct results on subsequent searches, e.g. A BAKER.

6. It is more difficult to save an individual's casualty details as a favourite.

7. The only method of creating a shortcut to an individual's casualty details based on the CWGC casualty ID links to a PDF file, not a webpage. For example: http://www.cwgc.org/PDFHandler.ashx?t=a2&ca=2479710

8. The unique casualty ID, athough still in use, is now largely hidden in the new version.

9. If you print the PDF copy of a casualty certificate, the surname is repeated, e.g. Willie Bennett becomes Willie Bennett Bennett.

10. Secondary regiment / unit information is missing from the casualty details screen for some individuals, e.g. R RANSLEY.

11. When viewing casualties from the Cemetery Details screen for some cemeteries, it is not possible to see the entire list of casualties, e.g. WELLOGATE (can only list 40 of 50 casualties). Not displaying casualties S-V.

12. A report that clicking on a casualty from a Cemetery Details screen resulted in the error "No data found".

Note: Michelle, can you please retry and advise cemetery and casualty name if problem still happening.

13. The PDF file for an individual's casualty certificate is rather large in size, 3.21 MB.

14. If the age of a casualty is Unknown, the PDF version says "Age: 0".

15. Some cemetery casualties are listed surname and christian name, whereas others are listed only by surname (no initial).

16. A randomly selected cemetery listing indicates that, following on from item 11, there may be general problems in this area. For example, selecting "LIVERPOOL (KIRKDALE) CEMETERY", indicates 512 casualties on the cemetery summary screen. When Cemetery Casualties is selected, the initial listing (A-C) is blank. This seems very unlikely given the size of the cemetery.


Thanks.

Martin

Edit: Combined the old 9 with 1 and renumbered.
Edit: Added 15 and 16.

[seadog]

Good work Martin, I take it that you will pass this to the CWGC. By the way it makes truly horrible reading!. What can they be thinking about to launch this.

Well Done
Norman

[Martin Elliget]

Norman, thanks. Yes I was going to do that. Is it better to send to the individual's email address mentioned previously, rather than to the webmaster via the website feedback? I get the feeling that the email might land in a dusty and cob-webbed inbox if sent to the latter.

[Derek Robertson]

Martin,

Well summarised. I suggest that we start a new thread listing all the "bugs" that we find.

As per one of my subsequent replies, the following URL syntax will work using the same casualty IDs as before (they haven't changed). Although it brings up a PDF file, not a webpage.

Roger that.
At least all is not lost and is very straightforward to change the links in an MS Access database. It just doesn't look or feel right to my sensibilities!


As for the Wellogate - yes there were 49 names listed on the CWGC last week as I e-mailed them to ask what had become of the 50th they were advertising as I could not find it!  S-Z are indeed missing

[Martin Elliget]

Actually, I'll delay sending for a short while. I posted it for comment, so will wait to see if anyone picks up anything.

[Pierre]

A Nr 16 for Martin:
If you list a cemetery, some are listed name and christian name,
the others only by name without initial.

[Martin Elliget]

A Nr 16 for Martin:
If you list a cemetery, some are listed name and christian name,
the others only by name without initial.

Thanks Pierre. Can you please provide an example cemetery name and casualty name so we can reproduce the problem?

[Martin Elliget]

This is worse than I thought, if that's possible. Following Pierre's report, I decided to go in a pick a cemetery at random, LIVERPOOL (KIRKDALE) CEMETERY. The summary reports 512 casualties but, when I click on Cemetery Casualties, the initial listing is blank - it lists nothing for A-C. Surely there must be some A-C casualties in a cemetery of this size?!

This doesn't necessarily mean problems at the back-end (the database), which would be more serious. I think it more likely it's a problem with how the new interface is interpretting the data. It doesn't appear that they did much road-testing before rolling this new interface out.

[Tonym]

Due to my lack of computer technology knowledge my records of 1.400, and growing, unfortunate lady casualties are intact and lining my bookshelves. Whilst the change has seriously affected my method of working I have to express my sincere sympathy to other colleagues who appear to have lost years of hard work.

However what does surprise me is no word from Terry Denham - Is he away, embarrassed or partly responsible for the fiasco?

Tony

[David Faulder]

Martin,

Thanks for your summary; I think it details the specifics well.  I think it is also useful if CWGC get feedback from outside the UK to remind them that the world does not end at the end of their drive!

I would suggest that as many people as possible email peter.francis@cwgc.org  He is the director responsible for communication (per Geoff's Search Engine - which curiously does not give an email address for the IT Director - we might guess at andrew.bishop@cwgc.org).  However if we email we should be stating why we are individually annoyed or upset, so it is not just nuisance.  He is away until 21 September, so either he will come back to an in-box full of complaints (which means he will get an idea of the depth and breadth of fury), or someone will have to clear his box out for him if it overflows (not a major exercise, but the person who does it will be made aware and hopefully will pass on comments).

I would welcome some feedback on why they did this.  I know some have suggested that it is a prelude to going pay per view or flogging the memorial (for that is what the database is) to a commercial organisation.  However it may just be that in out-sourcing this job (the credits page indicates that Westhill Communications may be responsible) they did not specify it properly and who ever did the dreadful deed applied their own internal standards which involved session variables.  It may be cock-up and not conspiracy.  It does however indicate a cack-handed approach to dealing with one of their major audiences which is worrying.

David

[kinnethmont]

However what does surprise me is no word from Terry Denham - Is he away, embarrassed or partly responsible for the fiasco?

Tony

I am aware that Terry is currently on holiday. I feel sure he too will be greatly concerned at what has occurred on the CWGC site. Your last two suggestions are uncalled for.

[Martin Elliget]

I think it's a bit rough to be levelling accusations, Tony. Let's at least wait until Terry gets back online and comments on the situation.

[David Faulder]

              UK Defence Minister Kevan Jones MP has urged              the public to make full use of the Commission's website to find out more about relatives              and friends who died in the two World Wars.  

  
http://www.cwgc.org/Latest-News.aspx

I feel some letters to MPs coming on!


Commissioners

          Chairman
          The Secretary of State for Defence in the United Kingdom
          The Rt. Hon. JOHN HUTTON MP (preumably now updated)

Mr ALAN MEALE MP

Mr Keith Simpson MP

David

[ian turner]

And whilst we are at it, perhaps a FULLY searchable database, please? Surely not a problem in this day and age?

[NigelS]

Also stuffed is Duncan Macleods 'CWGC Project'.  Although the site doesn't seem to have been updated since 2006,  and nothing like as useful as Geoff's, it was still a useful starting point for finding cemeteries in a given continent/country or UK region.

Site: http://www.purecollector.com/history/cwgc/

NigelS

PS

David Faulder

http://www.cwgc.org/Latest-News.aspx


This link doesn't work wonder why !

[Martin Elliget]

Thanks, David. As reported by June:

Peter Francis is away until 21 Sep and urgent emails can be sent to David Stacey at david.stacey@CWGC.org

I think your suggestion to write to the relevant MPs is a good one. Let's hope they haven't changed their addresses!

regards,

Martin

[Bardess]

I can't explain what has just happened but I seem to be able to go back onto the old site here

[Michelle Young]

Now that is spooky Diane, I just successfully used it too! The other new site isn't there.............

Michelle

[rjaydee]

Dianne. And me    Ralph.