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Gasmask problem


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#1 Landsturm

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 03:42 PM

What kind of gasmask was in use in German army on 22 April 1915? According to Stephen Bull`s book "World War I Trench Warfare 1914-16" it was rubberised fabric mask with eye pieces, and a separate cylinderical screw-fit filter which could be changed once its filling had become ineffective. Mask came in three different sizes and was carried in a grey cloth bag. This sounds like M1915 Gummimaske, doesn`t it? But, I`ve also seen accounts of some more "primitive" masks by Germans. Any further information?

#2 CROONAERT

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 04:53 PM

The "Gummimaske" didn't come out untill later in 1915 (unsure of the exact date ,but June/July sticks in my mind). The one in my collection is dated August 1915.

On April 22nd, the Germans were issued with a 2 piece "gasmask" consisting of a pair of goggles and a chemical impregnated "sandwich" mouth cover (resembling modern day dust-masks) consisting of several layers of chemical impregnated cloth. This was tied around the head using four fabric straps.

The early British gasmasks (mouthpiece and goggles) were based on these.

I'll post a photo of the April 1915 masks shortly.

Dave.

#3 bkristof

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 04:58 PM

The gas mask used the 22 april 1915 was a in Ghent (Belgium) made cotton patch + goggles.
The Gummimaske excisted already but wasn't used. Like Croonaert said.
The gummimaske was used in the chemical industry.
my sources say it appeared after the summer 1915.

greets,

kristof

#4 Joe Sweeney

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 05:55 PM

Lansturm,

The Masks issued to German troops in April 1915 was produced locally and known as the Atem oder Mundschutzer "Maske des AOK Gent".

It consisted of double rectangle 9X14cm filled with cotton waste and soaked with a solution of hyposulfate. As others said it was tied to the head with tapes. Goggles were not issued with this mask. 20000 were produced in Belgium. It came in a rubberized carrier 10X17 cm that was buttoned to the Tunic.

In May 1915 a second model was issued which resembled a modern day dusk mask and was issued with Lunnettes (Googles) because tear gas was coming into vogue. This mask was known as the "AtemSchutzer".

The German Gasschutzmaske 1915 (Linienmaske) was not ordered until 26 July 1915. Its issue began in the Automn and was complete on the Westernfront by January 1916. The Linienmaske was replaced by the Rahmnenmaske in 1916 and both of these masks are commonly called Gummimaske.


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#5 bkristof

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 05:59 PM

So i was quite right Joe?

#6 Yorts

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE (Landsturm @ Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:42:00 +0000)
What kind of gasmask was in use in German army on 22 April 1915? According to Stephen Bull`s book "World War I Trench Warfare 1914-16" it was rubberised fabric mask with eye pieces, and a separate cylinderical screw-fit filter which could be changed once its filling had become ineffective.

How did one decide that his filling was ineffective? Was it just a case of waiting until the gas got to you, or was their a proscribed time that a filter should be used for before being disposed of? How quickly could the cartridge be changed under battle conditions, and how many spares did one carry? The thought of advancing under heavy fire into you own gas and having to change a filter doesn't appeal, especially if you have to remove you mask / goggles to do so. I can cross thread a bolt under perfect conditions with no problems, so a gas mask crew thread sounds even more alarming.

Rgds,

Alex.

#7 Landsturm

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 06:01 PM

I think the changing the filter happened only in designer`s own mind. This is just what it reads in the book, and GROONAERT (?) if you have a photo, please do post it...

#8 AOK4

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 06:18 PM

Hello,

For people who are interested, there is an article (in German) about a gas course in Berlin in 1917 on my website with all kinds of details about the gas mask: link

Regards,
Jan

#9 Aurel Sercu

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 06:25 PM

Hope this helps visualize things.

Aurel

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#10 Aurel Sercu

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 06:30 PM

And this...

The caption says : "German soldiers of IR 37 with the Riechpäckchen" in the trench, April 1915.

Aurel

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#11 CROONAERT

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Yorts @ Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:06:24 +0000)
How did one decide that his filling was ineffective? Was it just a case of waiting until the gas got to you, or was their a proscribed time that a filter should be used for before being disposed of? How quickly could the cartridge be changed under battle conditions, and how many spares did one carry?

The filter became clogged and breathing became most difficult, if not impossible (usually between 2 and 6 hours of use, though in extremely heavy concentrations, "lifespan" could be cut down to as little as half an hour - these lifespans are still valid today with the S10 filters).

I'm unsure of the amount of spares carried, but , before the onset of the gasmask tin, the masks were carried in a tubular canvas case with 1 spare filter. Spare filters can also be encountered in their own individual cases being carried on the gasmask tin straps.

It should be possible to change a filter in less than 2 seconds (and is!). The proceedure being that the wearer closes his eyes, takes a deep breath and holds it, unscrews the filter, screws the new one in place, blows out (hard!), tentatively takes a breath, opens eyes and continues. If it's been cross threaded or incorrectly fitted, or leaks, then tough luck! unsure.gif

dave.

#12 Max Poilu

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 06:31 AM

Here is a picture of the neutralizing solution bottle that accompanied the second model - I only wish I had the matching mask wink.gif

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#13 Max Poilu

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 06:34 AM

But here is an interesting picture of the first model (April 1915) mask - taken from Delhomme's "La Guerre des Gaz 1915 - 1918" - an essential book (if you can find it!) for all students and collectors of this subject:

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#14 Max Poilu

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 06:35 AM

And the second model (August 1915):

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#15 Landsturm

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 08:17 AM

Thank you all, this has really been helpful!

#16 P.B.

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 12:30 AM

This photograph shows German soldiers from an unidentified regiment. Several of them are wearing the small cloth carrying pouch for the early pattern gasmask mentioned in this thread buttoned across the left shoulder of their tunics:

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#17 P.B.

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 12:31 AM

Close-up:

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#18 P.B.

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 12:38 AM

This is a surviving example of the cloth carrying bag used to hold the gummimaske before the introduction of the more familiar tin. This example is of the second type, featuring D-rings on the rear to allow the attachment of the bread-bag strap:

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#19 P.B.

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 12:42 AM

The same bag open, to display the seperate comapartment used to carry a spare filter, and the blurred manufacturer's details stamped on the interior of the top flap:

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#20 P.B.

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 12:47 AM

The gummimaske bag worn as part of the field equipment, note the number "2" on the end of the bag, denoting the size of the mask (1,2 and 3, or small, medium and large respectively).

Even after the introduction of the metal carrying tin, use of the cloth carrier continued. It is often seen in use as late as 1918, especially with assault troops who perhaps favoured it because it was lightweight, less noisy than the tin and could also carry a spare filter.

Hope this has all been of some interest, all the best

Paul.

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#21 Joe Sweeney

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 12:58 AM

Paul,

You may find this link of interest:

http://meltingpot.fo.../gasmaskbag.htm

You might also find of interest that these carriers were actually supplemental issue to the Mask cans (Bereitschaftsbuchse authorized in 1916) and did not precede them.

The model you show is the Segeltuchtasche 16 and was meant to carry the Mask (in the carrying can) along with a spare filter.

The earlier model carrier along with its method of carrying the Gummi mask(Segeltuchtasche 15) was found to be ackward. It had three compartments, one for spare filter another for the active filter and another for the mask. Each was carried in a small tin can. The article explains the methods.

Joe Sweeney

#22 P.B.

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 01:06 AM

Hi Joe

Many thanks for the reply and especially the link. I read that article a while ago and was desperately searching for it before I posted these shots...but couldn't remember where I'd seen it. "Before 1919" is indeed an excellent website.

I've actually just acquired this bag from it's previous owner, so I should make it clear that the photograph showing it in wear doesn't contain items from my own collection, but is used by kind permission of a fellow collector.

All the best

Paul.

#23 P.B.

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 10:06 PM

...and to complement the photos of the surviving example, a freshly-acquired postcard showing a soldier from IR 174 wearing the cloth gasmask bag:

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