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Howitzer Brigade RFA, help to decipher service record


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#1 nellys

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 09:17 PM

I am looking for info. re Albert Edward Guttridge born Sept 1883 Peterborough. He was in the supplement to the London Gazette 2421 23/2/1918. MM. From his service record where would he have been, I have looked at the RFA and am bewildered.... can't work out which brigade etc as they reorganised in 1916 and again later, any help appreciated




Many thanks Nel

#2 jay dubaya

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:06 PM

Nel,

his attestation was with the 2/3rd East Anglian Brigade and he will have been posted with either the 1st or 2nd Suffolk Howitzer Battery which served with the 54th (East Anglian) Division, his six digit number 889553 confirms the 3rd East Anglian Brigade RFA TF. It looks like he arrived overseas on the 5th October 1916. The 54th Division were in Palastine at this time and I note from his scant papers that 'France' is mentioned, this could be the transfer to the 536th Howitzer Battery and a change to a regular army number albeit another six digit one.

cheers, Jon

#3 nellys

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 11:35 PM

Thank you Jon, this chap is the Grandfather of a friend of mine, I'm sure he'll be chuffed, much more to go on, thanks again, Happy Birthday for next Sunday, Nel

#4 Ron Clifton

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 10:57 AM

Hello Nel

Bearing in mind the normal time delay before MMs were gazetted, it looks as if he may have earned it during the Battle of Cambrai, 20 Nov to 5 Dec 1917. A close second would be the final stages of the Third Battles of Ypres, around Passchendaele, at the end of Oct and first half of Nov.

Do you have his whole service record? If so, does it say which brigade RFA he belonged to around that time?

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#5 nellys

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 09:07 PM

Ron, there are only 2 pages to his service record, descriptive report on enlistment and short service, the only reference to brigade is a stamp at the bottom of the first page administrative centrs. 3rd East Anglian F A BDE ( How). I've looked for 536th battery and have found nothing so am still perplexed, as to which brigade he was with if 54th division were in Palastine??? sorry not done any research in this area before, thanks for any help, Papers show ? home May to Oct 157 days, underneath that something I cannot make out, and below that france, Nel

#6 David Porter

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:11 AM

Nel,

There are another 28 pages indexed under Albert Edward Gutteridge.
In the service record you have seen for October 5 it reads "BEF" (British Expeditionary Force).
He was in C Battery 155 Bde then D Battery 168 Bde and he qualified as a Signaller.
The Military Medal was awarded on 23-12-17 whilst with D Battery 168 Bde .
There is lots more there for you to read.

#7 nellys

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 03:10 PM

Thank you David, I shall look right away, why didn't I think of that! many thanks

#8 nellys

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 03:31 PM

Had a quick look, can't make it all out, fascinating stuff though, thanks again!

#9 sotonmate

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 05:37 PM

nellys

168 Brigade RFA was with 32 Division at the time of his MM award. Their War Diary might contain his citation. WO95/2381 which runs from Jan 1916 to Oct 1919,and is at Kew.

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#10 nellys

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 06:33 PM

I also found that C Battery 155 Brigade (32 Div) were involved in wire cutting in front of Thiepval prior to the attack of July 1st 1916 by 96th infantry brigade
also this
http://holmfirth1914...-Brigade-R-F-A-
the bit I want is missing, war diary next, thanks for all your help, it's clicked

#11 nellys

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 07:00 PM

also this On November 17 the battery moved forward to a position in front of AUCHONVILLERS. The next day the infantry attacked FRANKFORT and MUNICH TRENCHES, but the attack failed and the 32nd Division was badly cut up.
Another Soldier I have been researching is J Miller Pte Highland light Infantry 16th battalion, died 18/11/1916 RN 27305. Buried New Munich Trench, ( of the 32nd Division) Nel.

#12 Stebie9173

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 09:56 PM

I think I've come across the Guttridges/Gutteridges of Park Road before (having potentially adopted them as Gutteridges in my family tree for a while since his sister Ethel was a possible bride for one of my relatives).


Was Bertie Gutteridge of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry one of yours? I believe he would have been a brother. He was paralysed early in the war, but thankfully recovered.


From the Peterborough Absent Voters List:

Attached File  Gutteridges_Park_Road_1918_AVL.jpg   31.43KB   0 downloads


Bertie had unsurprisingly been invalided long before this list...



I'm out of the office for a while, but when back in the office I am a 5 minute lunchtime walk away from the library, where an article about his MM may lie....



I'll have a peek at the service record but I think his East Anglian Brigade unit was probably the UK based "training" unit, about which few references remain.



Steve.

#13 nellys

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 10:47 PM

Steve, indeed Bertie was Alfred's elder brother, by 5yrs according to 1901 census, parents Joseph and fanny, from the little I've researched so far, surname Guttridge or Gutteridge. My friend Chris is expecting a little info. re his Grandfather, would be great to also give him some info about his G Uncle, I'm seeing Chris on Friday ( off topic he plays double bass in my cousins band and are gigging Friday!) Would be great to have info re Albert's MM, have deduced they were around St Julien.
17th November relieved the 41st brigade, area of Hackney Villa, HQ at Cheddar Villa and relieved 8th Jan 1918, tongue.gif Nel

#14 Stebie9173

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 10:59 PM

Albert Edward Guttridge

Attested at Peterborough under the Derby Scheme, age 32 years & 6 month, 14-12-1915.
Called up to Ipswich on 1-5-1916.
Posted to 2/3rd East Anglian Field Artillery (Howitzer) Brigade, Royal Field Artillery, 1-5-1916.
Allotted No. 1699 within the 3rd East Anglian Field Artillery (Howitzer) Brigade.
Posted to D/346 Brigade RFA, 1-8-1916, No. 2781 and allotted new No. 2780
Transferred to 536th Howitzer Battery, RFA on 26-8-1916. (He would have again been renumbered at this point - probably to No. 286251)
Appointed as acting Bombardier, 7-9-1916.
536th Battery became C Battery of 155 Brigade RFA on ?????
To France on 5th October 1916.
Awarded the British War Medal & Victory Medal.
Transferred to 168th Brigade RFA on 20-1-1917.

Per the Order of Battle for 32nd Division (see link below

QUOTE
CLV Brigade RFA: C (Howitzer) Bty. 10 Oct 1916 - 20 Jan 1917. Broken up and divided between D (Howitzer) Bty, CLXI Bde and D (Howitzer) Bty, CLXVIII Bde. Transferred to D Battery of 168th Brigade RFA on 20-1-1917.


Albert would have been one of the men transferring to latter - CLXVIII (168th) Artillery Brigade Royal Field Artillery on 20-1-1917 upon the break up of CLV (155th) Brigade.

Renumbered in March 1917 to 889553.

Appointed as a Lance-Bombardier with 168th Brigade RFA on 15-7-1917
Granted "RP" (????? Pay) Class 2 of 3d (3 old pence) on 29-9-1917
Granted "RP" (????? Pay) Class 1 of 6d (6 old pence) on 4-12-1917
Awarded the Military Medal on 23-12-1917 (Gazetted 23-2-1918)
Admitted to 28 "O.R.S." (???? Rest Station) with P.U.O. (Pyrexia of Uncertain Origin) on 22-6-1918
Returned to duty on 30-6-1918
Leave to UK from 168th Brigade from 21-8-1918 to 4-9-1918.
Leave extended to 15-9-1918.
Leave extended to 30-9-1918.
Leave extended to 20-10-1918.
Returned to France, 21-10-1918.
Posted to 4th Army Reinforcement Camp on 16-11-1918.
To England for demobilisation from 168th Brigade RFA (attached to the War Trophies Park, XIII Corps at that point) as a Lance-Bombardier, 14-2-1919
Transferred to Class Z Reserve on 15-3-1919



155th Brigade was attached to attached to 32nd Division whilst Albert was with them:

See CLV Brigade:

http://www.1914-1918.net/rfa_units.htm


168th Brigade was also attached to 32nd Division whilst Albert was with them:

See CLXVIII Brigade on the above link.


http://www.1914-1918.net/32div.htm



The Order of Battle for 32nd Division:

http://warpath.orbat...div.htm#CLVBde1



Steve.

#15 Stebie9173

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:03 PM

I know I photocopied a few articles on Bertie (just in case!) but they are probably at the bottom of my box of photocopies since it was a few years back. I know there was a picture of Bertie with his friend and at least two or three articles on his wounding.


He was wounded in late 1914/early 1915 by a piece of shrapnel in the back, I believe. He was paralysed for a while, but I'm sure there were later articles where he had made a near full recovery. But that is from memory!


I'm unlikely to be able to get into the library until next week though....



Steve.

#16 nellys

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:22 PM

That's fine, I'm so grateful anyway! There is another brother Thomas George served with Army Service Corps, have found his service record, the guy on the absent voters!. 1914/15 star BWM and Victory. So now we have Bertie, Albert and Thomas and Ethel, no way can I precis all this by Friday! Guess Chris needs to join the forum, thanks Steve

#17 Stebie9173

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:23 PM

Aha! Here's one I prepared earlier:

Bertie Guttridge

No. 3 Troop, B Squadron (Peterborough Squadron) Northamptonshire Yeomanry TF (detachments at Oundle, Glinton, Thrapston)

Corporal, Regimental Number 278.


1914 Star with Clasp and Roses / British War Medal / Victory Medal / Silver War Badge.


Possibly BMD entries:

Born Sep Qtr 1878 at Peterborough. Birth registered as Gutteridge, 3b-252.
Possibly married Rose Elizabeth Dixon (born 1880) in June quarter 1901, Peterborough.
Lived at Towler Street after married.
Died 1942, age 63.


From the Peterborough and Hunts Standard, 2nd January 1915:

Several Peterborough Yeomen at the front wrote home during Christmas. Cpl Guttridge of Towler Street and son of Mr & Mrs J Guttridge of Park Road, relates that they had been in the trenches and have been having a rough time of it. “We live well”, he adds, “and are doing all right.”

From the Peterborough and Hunts Standard, 16th January 1915:

A letter from same squadron relating trench warfare with trenches only 25 yards apart. Bombing replaces rifle shooting at enemy.

(Not fully transcribed)


From the Peterborough and Hunts Standard, 23rd January 1915:

Mrs & Mrs Guttridge of Park Road have received a letter from their son who is serving at the front with the Northants Yeomanry in which he states that they expect to be given a rest at the end of the present month, and there is the possibility that they will be able to enjoy a brief holiday in England.

Also another letter stating that ‘B’ Squadron Northamptonshire Yeomanry were fighting in trenches. Up to 20th January 1915, they had spent 3 weeks in trenches, rotating 3 days in, 3 day out.


From the Peterborough Advertiser, 13th February 1915:

Peterborough Yeoman Wounded

News was received in Peterborough on Tuesday that Cpl Bert Guttridge of Peterborough ( B ) Squadron of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry and son of Mrs & Mrs Guttridge of Park Road, has been wounded in action. From the bare particulars available, Cpl. Guttridge was wounded in the shoulder and spine and was lying unconscious in hospital in France.


From the Peterborough and Hunts Standard, 20th February 1915:

Corporal Guttridge paralysed

Mr J [Joseph] Guttridge of Park Road has received further news of his son, Corporal Bert Guttridge of the Northants Yeomanry who was recently shot to his spine while at the Front. Cpl. Guttridge has been brought to England and arrived at Southampton on Friday [probably the 12th]. He is now at Oxford, and is shortly to be moved to hospital in London. He has recovered consciousness and wrote the letter containing this information. At present he is paralysed in both legs but his ultimate recovery is hoped for.


From the Peterborough and Hunts Standard, 27th February 1915:

Corporal B Guttridge who received wounds while on active service some weeks ago and was partially paralysed is now much better and is able to walk. He is expected to return home before long.


From the Peterborough and Hunts Standard, 8th May 1915:

Corporal Guttridge arrives home

Corporal Bert Guttridge of Towler Street who was in the Peterborough Squadron of the Northants Yeomanry has returned home. He was wounded in service. Some months ago, Cpl Guttridge was wounded while on active service and he suffered an injury to his spine. Since then he has been under careful treatment at Oxford and London. He is now much better and able to walk about. He cannot lift his legs much, but a complete recovery is expected. He is now waiting for his discharge as his return to health could take many months.




I hope this helps,
Steve.

#18 Stebie9173

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:33 PM

Bertie's Medal Card:

Attached File  Bertie_Gutteridge_No_278_Nn_Yeomanry.jpg   52.06KB   0 downloads

The Northamptonshire Yeomanry were attached to 8th Division from their arrival in France until mid-1915 (after Bertie's wounding, of course).



Steve.

#19 nellys

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:45 PM

You beat me! I'm too tired now after finishing work at 4pm, walking dogs, cooking tea, washing dishes and acting as referee between 2 stroppy teenagers and all this... It's wonderful Nel

#20 Ron Clifton

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 10:06 AM

QUOTE (Stebie9173 @ Oct 14 2009, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Appointed as a Lance-Bombardier with 168th Brigade RFA on 15-7-1917
Granted "RP" (????? Pay) Class 2 of 3d (3 old pence) on 29-9-1917
Granted "RP" (????? Pay) Class 1 of 6d (6 old pence) on 4-12-1917
Awarded the Military Medal on 23-12-1917 (Gazetted 23-2-1918)
Admitted to 28 "O.R.S." (???? Rest Station) with P.U.O. (Pyrexia of Uncertain Origin) on 22-6-1918

Steve

I think "RP" should be "PP" or perhaps "PrP" - proficiency pay. This was awarded in two classes at daily rates of 3d and 6d and related to the soldier's skills in musketry and other fields.

Knowing what handwriting looked like on those forms, I think "ORS" may be a mis-reading of "CCS" = Casualty Clearing Station. There were Rest Camps (not stations) but you got sent there after hospitalisation, not before. It might be ADS = Advanced Dressing Station, but that was normally for physically wounded men, not sick ones.

Ron

#21 Stebie9173

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:02 PM

You're right of course Ron, it is "P. P.". Plain as day!


The other looks like ORS though...

Attached File  16_Howitzer_Bde.jpg   95.22KB   4 downloads


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#22 Ron Clifton

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:47 PM

Steve

As the ORS appears in the column "From whom received" I sustpect it may be Orderly Room Sergeant. Each battalion or equivalent unit left one of these at the Base (AG's Office or GHQ 3rd Echelon) at Rouen, and his job was to maintain the personnel records of the unit from the various returns which came from the front and the medical units.

WO in the same column is clearly War Office, and the RP opposite the PP entries is the Regimental Paymaster.

Ron

#23 Stebie9173

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:57 PM

Doh! (again). Wasn't thinking from that angle (obviously)...


Steve.



#24 nellys

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:45 PM

I am glad you can understand the above, I couldn't understand most of it. Thanks for the clarification

#25 nellys

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 12:32 AM

Just to add, Chris and his Mum were thrilled with the info you guys have put together and they send a big thank you! Chris remembers his Grandmother telling him about someone who carried a man from a burning dugout, was this Grandad's MM?
thanks Nel