16 replies to this topic

[471GLS]

My wife's grandfather was in the QWR and was wounded on the first day of the Somme.
This information we knew.   I have recently found his local newspaper's account of the
incident at the time, which gives further details hitherto unknown.   However the article
has the following wording: '.......a bullet wound through the cheek, being at the time the
only man left of six attached to a gun'.
As a rifleman I cannot understand why he should be in a squad of six attached to a gun.
The War Diaries mention trench morters and bombing parties, did they consist of six men?
Can anybody please clarify.   Or, is it just an error by the newspaper.

He recovered, went on to obtain a commission in the RFA, and was posted to the Salient
for the remainder of the War.  He became part of the Army of Occupation of the Rhineland
in Dec 1918.

[SteveE]

Sounds to me as if he was a part of one of the battalion machine gun teams.  I'm sure somebody will be along who is able to quote chapter and verse on how many each battalion had etc. but in the meantime this section on the LLT may help.... http://www.1914-1918.net/mgc.htm   as may this earlier thread.... http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...+Gun+team\

Regards

Steve

[bmac]

He must have been in a QWR machine gun team which went over with the attack at Gommecourt on 1st July.  Two machine gun teams from the QWR went over with the attack.  One, led by 2nd Lt Jack Engall, had been given the task of setting a machine gun post in the furthest part of the area to be taken.  They went over with A Company and set up a position within the German trenches.  Four men of the team had already been put out of action by then and Engall and the last remaining member fired the gun until Engall was shot in the head and killed.  Five men from the QWR in the 169th Brigade Machine Gun Company were killed on 1st July and three, one of them Engall, have no known grave.

[471GLS]

Sounds to me as if he was a part of one of the battalion machine gun teams. I'm sure somebody will be along who is able to quote chapter and verse on how many each battalion had etc. but in the meantime this section on the LLT may help.... http://www.1914-1918.net/mgc.htm as may this earlier thread.... http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...+Gun+team\

Regards

Steve

[471GLS]

Steve.

Many thanks for the info.   It seems he was part of a machne gun squad.

[471GLS]

bmac,

Thanks for the info.   I have re-read the QWR War Diaries for July 1, 1916
and it seems possible that the last man alive at the machine gun post with
Lt Engall could have been my wife's grandfather.

[bmac]

That struck me too.  There are some very moving letters from Engall in a little book privately published after his death.  The IWM has a copy.  His last letter home is heart rending stuff.

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

I have come across your post last year about the Queen's Westminster Rifles and your ancestors being wounded at Gommecourt.

My great uncle Second Lieutenant John Baber was in command of that section at Gommecourt. He went on to command the battalion in the Inter-war period and helped write the regimental history.

He retained a lot of maps and records from those events.

I have the original fire orders for the machine gun sections on the 1st July 1916 as well as some of the notes sent back from the guns to his post on that terrible day.

I would be very interested in trying to see if I have anything about your man. I have some photos of his sections in 1914, and 1915.

What was his name?

Regards

Nick Balmer

[bmac]

John Baber was a temporary captain at the time of the attack and, as OC of the 169th MGC, wrote a letter to 2nd Lt Jack Engall's parents which is reproduced in the book mentioned above.

[flaminglacer]

bmac,

I am most interested in your comments about Lt Engall, who was a cousin , albeit several times removed.  Engall is my maiden name and I am involved in a One Name Study of the name.  Do you have the title of the book you referred to in your earlier post as i would love to read / get a copy of it if possible.

Many thanks

Tricia

[bmac]

"A subaltern's letters: The letters of Second Lieutenant J S Engall, 1915-16."  Privately published.  Copy at the Imperial War Museum, catalogue number IWM 8640.

[flaminglacer]

bmac,

Thank you so much for that information - i am most grateful

Tricia

[footsore private]

Lieutenant J.S. Engall is also mentioned in The Deluge by Arthur Marwick. Page 234 of my 1967 Pelican Books edition. It paraphrases the poignant last letter highlighting the religious faith of some of the troops.

[Merioneth]

Can anyone provide info on emblems  on uniform buttons. Have been given ID of Queen's Westminster Rifles for two, quite different design buttons. One metal button with Coat of arms on Portcullis and Imperial crown above. The other black horn or plastic with Prince of Wales's feathers on Portcullis and coronet, as opposed to crown, above. Any help welcomed.

[MBrockway]

Merioneth, on 16 October 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Can anyone provide info on emblems  on uniform buttons. Have been given ID of Queen's Westminster Rifles for two, quite different design buttons. One metal button with Coat of arms on Portcullis and Imperial crown above. The other black horn or plastic with Prince of Wales's feathers on Portcullis and coronet, as opposed to crown, above. Any help welcomed.

Suggest you start a new Topic in the Equipment sub-forum - not sure how buttons are connected to this topic.  There's a large topic there on regimental buttons, which includes info on the QWR portcullis button with pics.  Should be quick to find with the GWF's easy-to-use search facility.

[Merioneth]

I must be doing something wrong (which is not unknown)! Using search box for either Queen's Westminster Rifles or Regimental buttons gave null result re buttons in equipment sub-forum! Physically scrolled through all 31 pages of equipment  sub-forum but again null result.

[MBrockway]

Merioneth, on 16 October 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

I must be doing something wrong (which is not unknown)! Using search box for either Queen's Westminster Rifles or Regimental buttons gave null result re buttons in equipment sub-forum! Physically scrolled through all 31 pages of equipment  sub-forum but again null result.

Apologies - it's in Classic Threads here: Regimental buttons.