75 replies to this topic

[MartinWills]

And this one:

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[MartinWills]

The tale of the sinking is spelt out on a double panel, but I fear that the limited width of the forum makes this difficult to read:

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[MartinWills]

And:

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[MartinWills]

The descriptive panel reads:

TO THE GLORY OF GOD AND IN REVERENT MEMORY OF THESE FIFTEEN MEN OF THE AUSTRALIAN IMPERIAL FORCE DROWNED IN THE "SOUTHLAND" TRANSPORT WHICH WAS TORPEDOED ON THE 2ND SEPTEMBER 1915 OF THESE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY THREE OFFICERS AND MEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM DROWNED IN THE MINESWEEPER "HYTHE" WHICH WAS SUNK BY COLLISION ON THE 28TH OCTOBER 1915 AND OF THESE TWENTY NINE MEN OF THE FORCES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM DROWNED IN THE "MERCIAN" TRANSPORT WHICH WAS ATTACKED BY SUBMARINE ON THE 2RD NOVEMBER 1915 ALL OF WHOM HAVE NO OTHER GRAVE THAN THE SEA
HE DISCOVERETH DEEP THINGS OUT OF DARKNESS
AND BRINGETH OUT TO LIGHT THE SHADOW OF DEATH

I don't know whether there are any further names on the addenda panels.

[westkent78]

Clive,

Yes please, that would be great. Whenever you have the time.

Thanks,

Matthew

[westkent78]

Martin,

Thank you very much for sharing your photos.

Matthew

[Fred W]

Another man drowned when HMS Hythe was in collision with the armed boarding vessel "Sarnia" was 4063 Private Frank Wardley 26th Coy. Royal Ordnance Corps. HMS Hythe was stranded on Kephez Point in the Dardenelles and torpedoed by picket boats of HMS Triumph and HMS Majestic, to save her falling into enemy hands.
Frank Wardley was the youngest son of Mr. W.B. Wardley of 2 Selby Street, Nelson, and joined the army on 20th January 1915.

Fred W

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[Clive Maier]

Another man drowned when HMS Hythe was in collision with the armed boarding vessel "Sarnia" was 4063 Private Frank Wardley 26th Coy. Royal Ordnance Corps. HMS Hythe was stranded on Kephez Point in the Dardenelles and torpedoed by picket boats of HMS Triumph and HMS Majestic, to save her falling into enemy hands. ...

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All the accounts I have seen, say that the Sarnia cut halfway through Hythe, causing her to sink rapidly and completely. What is your source for the torpedo story?

[Clive Maier]

Martin,

Many thanks for those pictures. You have solved a problem. I had reason to suspect that the surname of Captain Reggie Salomons might have been misspelt on the Helles memorial. Your pictures prove that is not so. Thanks again.

Regards,
Clive Maier

[Clive Maier]

Clive,

Yes please, that would be great. Whenever you have the time.

Thanks,

Matthew

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK. Still the same email address?

[MartinWills]

The process of transcription of CWGC records has led to some mispellings.

There may be additional names on the "Addenda" Panel.

I am not sure that it was Kephez Point where Hythe was lost - apart from submarines our vessels did not tend to stray that far into the straits.

Martin

[westkent78]

Clive,

Yes. Same address.

Matthew

OK. Still the same email address?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Clive Maier]

All the accounts I have seen, say that the Sarnia cut halfway through Hythe, causing her to sink rapidly and completely. What is your source for the torpedo story?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fred W did not get back on this so I think I should say for accuracy rather than point-scoring that the torpedo account is not supported by any source I can find. All references I have seen agree that the Hythe sank rapidly and completely as a result of massive damage received when hit broadside and at speed by the bows of a vessel with three times its displacement.

[Simon Jones]

Reggie Salomons was David Reginald Salomons, a photo of him is on the website of the family home which is now open to the public, near Tunbridge Wells.
http://www.salomonscentre.org.uk/history/g...id_reginald.php
When I worked at the RE Museum about 15 years ago, a uniform jacket named to him came up for auction and was purchased for the house. The RE Museum has a plaque in his memory which was originally in Tunbridge Wells hospital, his father endowed some kind of electro-therapy department in his memory.

Simon

[Clive Maier]

Thanks for that Simon; I did not know about the plaque.

Broomhill, the Salomons family home, is in my hometown of Southborough. Years ago, my father was involved in converting the stables to a district blood bank. The stable block was panelled throughout in mahogony!

[pompeyrodney]

Hello

Here is the list of naval personel lost in HYTHE when she was lost
BOYLE JOHN  STOKER, RNR U 1698 HYTHE

BREBNER ROBERT  TRIMMER, RNR L 119 HYTHE

BURROWS ALBERT  L/TRIMMER, RNR S T 1288 HYTHE

CLARK ARTHUR  COOK, Mercantile Marine Reserve (none listed) HYTHE

CURLEY THOMAS  STOKER, RNR S 3278 HYTHE

DONALD JAMES S. TRIMMER, RNR S T 542 HYTHE

HAND WILLIAM  TRIMMER, RNR S T 174 HYTHE

MACDONALD JOHN  SEAMAN, RNR A 7320 HYTHE

PAISLEY JOSEPH  TRIMMER, RNR S T 1645 HYTHE

POTTER CHARLES  P.O. 1c (Pensioner) 155278 (Ch) HYTHE

WEBB PERCY G. ASST ENGINEER, Mercantile Marine Reserve (none listed) HYTHE

don

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Evening All
Being an ex stoker myself I am intrigued as to the rank of trimmer, can someone enlighten me pleased, I should be most grateful
Cheers
Julian

[westkent78]

Evening All
Being an ex stoker myself I am intrigued as to the rank of trimmer, can someone enlighten me pleased, I should be most grateful
Cheers
Julian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Julian,

I think a trimmer was also known as a "coal trimmer".
My understanding is that they were employed to keep the coal bunkers balanced so the ship did not list dangerously as the coal/ballast was used. They were probably the prior link in the chain to Stokers in the process from bunker to boiler.

Regards,

Matthew

[pompeyrodney]

Hello Julian,

I think a trimmer was also known as a "coal trimmer".
My understanding is that they were employed to keep the coal bunkers balanced so the ship did not list dangerously as the coal/ballast was used. They were probably the prior link in the chain to Stokers in the process from bunker to boiler.

Regards,

Matthew

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Matt
Many thanks for responding, i had no idea anyone was empoyed simply to balance the usage of coal. I would imagine that would be a hideous job, did they have to shovel it around as it was used or how was it done. I wouold welcome any info you might have.
Cheers
Julian

[Boreenatra]

Sorry to all I didn't know this thread was runnig.If you check my Naval Recollections thread there's an account from a survivor of the Hythe, Major Alfred Francis Gerald Ruston. Regards Steve.

[Clive Maier]

Steve,

Thank you for drawing our attention to Major Ruston’s account. Can you name the source?

It seems very odd that he was socialising in the engine room when the collision came. The Hythe and the Sarnia were sailing without lights because they were close to the destination. Other accounts say that the men had already received orders to don their kit and douse their cigarettes, and the officers had gone up to the bridge in readiness.

[Boreenatra]

Clive. The story came from his own war accounts as told to local historian C.T.Perfect and are part of a selection of local men (Hornchurch / Romford ) and their WW1 stories. Ruston also became a P.O.W. and recounts a fascinating insight into his experiences. I will post it later. He does say that the engineer was a local man so that may have been the reason he was below decks at that time, but as with all things, differing accounts of the same event probably is inevitable depending on where the accountee is and his perspective on what he sees.

Once again sorry about not seeing the thread, I normaly would check the search facility, but for some reason didn't on this occasion. Regards Steve.

[ionia]

[quote=pompeyrodney,May 21 2005, 08:27 AM]
Evening All
Being an ex stoker myself I am intrigued as to the rank of trimmer, can someone enlighten me pleased, I should be most grateful
Cheers
Julian


A trimmer's duty in the boiler room was to trim and transfer coal from the bunkers to the firing platform He also assisted in cleaning fires and the removal of ashes from the fireroom. He was, if you like, an apprentice fireman.

[westkent78]

A trimmer's duty in the boiler room was to trim and transfer coal from the bunkers to the firing platform He also assisted in cleaning fires and the removal of ashes from the fireroom. He was, if you like, an apprentice fireman.

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[/quote]

Julian,

I can't add anything to "Ionia"'s definition. That's my understanding of the trimmers' role too.

Regards,

Matthew

[Clive Maier]

Clive. The story came from his own war accounts as told to local historian C.T.Perfect and are part of a selection of local men (Hornchurch / Romford ) and their WW1 stories. ...

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Thanks Steve. Is that a published work or a manuscript?

It must have been a tense time. They were approaching a theatre of war for the first time, and in darkness and bad weather at that. They were on a small jam-packed vessel ill suited to the job. It seems amazing to me that Major Ruston had the option to amuse himself, let alone wanted to. Surely his place was with the other officers or with the men? Apparently the captain of the Hythe was not on the bridge either.

[Boreenatra]

Hi Clive. The story was published in a book in 1920 so the account Ruston gives was not " influenced by hindsight" so to speak so must be taken as written. Perhaps the protocols we tend to think that were followed maybe were different depending on the " class" of the people involved. Although the military aspect is not so much my thing, I tend to see lots of quite young men getting commissions and the old sweats ( no disrespect to any forum members!! ) were the privates and corporals and rank was  a class thing. Any thoughts? Regards Steve.