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10th Royal Hussars


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#1 So Cal Bruce

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 03:20 PM

I'm looking at a gents attestation form into the South African Motorcycle Corp. on 10.2.1916 in Potchefstroom,South Africa. Under previous service he states 10th Hussars 20 mos. My understanding is that the 10th was in Potchefstroom 1913-8/1914
This man was born in Barrow-in Furness,Lancashire April 9,1889,is it probable that he enlisted in the U.K. and was shipped to S.A. with the 10th? Does anyone know what month 1913 they embarked?
Any comments on length of service,only 20 mos......invalided out??
Are there any records/rolls at Kew for the 10th Hussars in this time period 1910-1914? Trying to establish a timeline as there was previous and post service to this period,he served in GSWA and GEA
This soldiers name was Mathew Dixon Batty,he was awarded the 1914-15 Star,BWM and VM.
Thanks for any and all insights!
Bruce

#2 Ron Clifton

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 04:29 PM

Hello Bruce, and welcome to the Forum!

10th Hussars were indeed in South Africa in August 1914 but came home in September and joined the newly raised 6 Cav Bde, 3 Cav Div, in France.

I do not know of any records at Kew relating to the regiment specifically (they did not start keeping War Diaries until embarkation) but there are two sources from which you can trace where they were since about 1900. The first is in the monthly returns of the Distribution of the Army, which are in class WO73, and the second is the Monthly Army Lists which I believe are on open shelves in one of the Kew reading rooms, but you may be able to find the latter more easily if there is a large public library near you.

Good hunting!

Ron

#3 Steven Broomfield

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 08:52 AM

You could try the Horsepower, the King's Royal Hussars Museum, in Winchester. They almost certainly won't have anything on your man, but they might be able to fill you in a little on the regiment's time in SA.

Link here

And here

#4 Philip Wilson

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:39 PM

James' British Cavalry and Yeomanry - page 4 confirms 10th Hussars at Potchefstroom on 4th August 1914. Sailed from Cape Town August 1914. Joined 6th Cavalry Brigade, 3rd Cavalry Division at Ludgershall on 22 September 1914.

Landed at Ostend 8th October 1914. Moving to 8th Cavalry Brigade on 20 November 1914, remaining with them until joining 6th Cavalry Brigade on 12 March 1918.

Philip

#5 So Cal Bruce

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE (Ron Clifton @ Jun 19 2010, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello Bruce, and welcome to the Forum!

10th Hussars were indeed in South Africa in August 1914 but came home in September and joined the newly raised 6 Cav Bde, 3 Cav Div, in France.

I do not know of any records at Kew relating to the regiment specifically (they did not start keeping War Diaries until embarkation) but there are two sources from which you can trace where they were since about 1900. The first is in the monthly returns of the Distribution of the Army, which are in class WO73, and the second is the Monthly Army Lists which I believe are on open shelves in one of the Kew reading rooms, but you may be able to find the latter more easily if there is a large public library near you.

Good hunting!

Ron


Thank you Ron

#6 So Cal Bruce

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE (Philip Wilson @ Jun 20 2010, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
James' British Cavalry and Yeomanry - page 4 confirms 10th Hussars at Potchefstroom on 4th August 1914. Sailed from Cape Town August 1914. Joined 6th Cavalry Brigade, 3rd Cavalry Division at Ludgershall on 22 September 1914.

Landed at Ostend 8th October 1914. Moving to 8th Cavalry Brigade on 20 November 1914, remaining with them until joining 6th Cavalry Brigade on 12 March 1918.

Philip



Thanks very much Philip,is there any mention of when they embarked from their former post to S.A.?
Forgive this question if it is a dim one but,is it probable that this gent attested to the 10th in the U.K. or did Imperial units also recruit overseas?
Thanks again
Bruce

#7 Philip Wilson

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:33 PM

Bruce

No there is no mention of when they arrived in South Africa in James' History of Cavalry and Yeomanry 1914-18.

The answer you are looking for is sure to be in this book by Colonel R.S.Liddell

Attached File  Colonel_R._S._Liddell.jpg   9.62KB   4 downloads

Their Wikepedia entry is not that detailed and only provides clues here is the extract 1899 -1908: With the outbreak of the Second Boer War, the regiment sailed for South Africa in 1899. After fighting at Colesberg, the regiment participated in the relief of Kimberley in February 1900, the Battle of Paardeberg immediately afterwards, and then two years of fighting in the Transvaal.

The regiment also saw action on the North-West Frontier in 1908.

No indication is given in Wikipedia that the regiment was in South Africa before being recalled at the outbreak of the Great War.

Philip


#8 Ron Clifton

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:20 AM

QUOTE (So Cal Bruce @ Jun 20 2010, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... is it probable that this gent attested to the 10th in the U.K. or did Imperial units also recruit overseas?

Bruce

Almost certainly he enlisted in the UK. British regiments did not recruit overseas in peacetime, although it is possible that he approached the regiment in SA, had a brief chat about terms of service etc, and then went to the UK to enlist formally. All basic training was done at home and, generally speaking, only fully trained men were sent overseas.

In wartime, if extra troops were needed locally, they were usually raised as separate "irregular" units, on a temporary basis for the campaign in question. There were several such in the Boer War of 1899-1902.

Ron

#9 So Cal Bruce

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 03:06 PM

QUOTE (Ron Clifton @ Jun 21 2010, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bruce

Almost certainly he enlisted in the UK. British regiments did not recruit overseas in peacetime, although it is possible that he approached the regiment in SA, had a brief chat about terms of service etc, and then went to the UK to enlist formally. All basic training was done at home and, generally speaking, only fully trained men were sent overseas.

In wartime, if extra troops were needed locally, they were usually raised as separate "irregular" units, on a temporary basis for the campaign in question. There were several such in the Boer War of 1899-1902.

Ron


Thanks again for confirming my thoughts,very helpful

#10 joee86

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:54 PM

Hello So Cal Bruce,

I think this may be the first post that I can help answer rather than asking questions all the time! My great grandfather was also in the 10th Hussars at the same time. I have his service record he also served in the South Africa. From that I can provide you with the following, it may not help. However, you may note that the dates are different to a lot of the official ones ie: when they arrived in France. The following part covers the area you want.

India 5th Sept 1907 to 6th Nov 1912
Obtained 2nd class certificate of education at Rawal Pindi, India 21st August 1909
Found sleeping at post 27th Nov 1909
Awarded detention for 14 days 27th Nov 1909
Appointed Lance Corp 27th feb 1911

S Africa 7th November 1912 to 19th sept 1914
Permitted to extend his service to complete 2 years on 10th sept 1912
Appointed Lance Corp 20th Sept 1914

Home Sept 20th 1914 to 5th October 1914

France 6th Oct to 19th May 1915



If your guy was in India before I dont know, but it gives you an idea.


Joe.

#11 jack

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 07:07 PM

Hi Bruce,

The 10th Hussars left Rawalpindi, India, 18 Oct 1912 bound for Durban via Mauritius. Sailed on the NORTHBROOK at 1300hrs, 22 Oct 1912. Arrived Port Louis, Mauritius 30 Oct 1912. Left Mauritius 31 Oct 1912 arriving Durban 5 Nov 1912.

The Regiment disembarked and entrained for Tempe Siding, Bloemfontain. Arrived Tempe Siding 8 Nov 1912 and went under canvas at Tempe Farm. I have "B" Squadron marching into quarters at Potchefstroom 18 Dec 1912.

During 5th August 1914 they heard of the outbreak of war in Europe and were recalled.
On the 23rd they received orders to entrain at Potchefstroom for Cape Town. On the 25th Aug 1914, they embarked on RMS BALMORAL CASTLE, bound for Southampton, arriving 19th Sep 1914.

Hope this helps,

Jack

#12 joee86

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 07:40 PM

Hi Jack,

May I ask how you learnt of this information? As you can see from my posts, the 10th Hussars are my main focus, is this information from a book that I can buy? Also, what do you mean by I have B Squadron marching? If that is a photo would it be possible to see it?

Cheers,
Joe.




#13 jack

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:34 PM

Hi Joe,

That' a very good question. I have been adding bits and pieces to my grandfather's details over a number of years. He was H6285 Pte Frederick Richards. I have a copy of his Service Record which gives a few details and I have been filling in the details as I go along. I have visited Kew and read the War diary, and I have a couple of books on the 10th Hussars. Unfortunately, not all my info is in just the one book. I have copied out almost a daily whereabouts of the Regiment from the day he joined the 10th in Rawalpindi in 1910 till he was wounded at Monchy in April 1917. He got a "Blighty One" there and never returned to the Regiment during the war. You are welcome to a copy if you wish.


Jack

#14 alanlw

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 12:19 PM

Hi Jack,

May I ask how you learnt of this information? As you can see from my posts, the 10th Hussars are my main focus, is this information from a book that I can buy? Also, what do you mean by I have B Squadron marching? If that is a photo would it be possible to see it?

Cheers,
Joe.





The book THE 10th (P.W.O.) ROYAL HUSSARS AND THE ESSEX YEOMANRY, DURING THE EUROPEAN WAR, 1914-1918 by Lt Col Whitmore is available to read on-line or as a free download from www.archive.org/details/10thpworoyalhuss00whit -it's out of copyright so no issues there. It contains an enormous amount of detail on the 10th Hussars (& Essex Yeomanry) in WW1, full officers' roll, dates of coming and going, when wounded etc.

There are many other interesting documents to be found on www.archive.org, including for example the 1911 Delhi Durbar directory which lists all the regiments attending, the names of the officers and their guests. The 10th Hussars were there.

The 1911 Census shows the 10th Hussars were in Lucknow,India . Does anyone know when or why they moved from Rawalpindi to Lucknow? Was it just for the Durbar? Did they return to Rawalpindi?