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21st Battalion KRRC - the original Yeomen

KRRC Yeoman Rifles

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#326 Edward1

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:56 AM

I have been researching a Yeoman Rifleman Percy Simons C/12681 who`s attestation was approved by Lt Col Feversham 2nd Dec 15 at Helmsley. He DOW 5/10/16 He was awarded the Military Medal,London Gazette 8th Dec16.
His older brother Edgar was also a awarded the Military Medal with the 2nd Yorks LG, 19th March 18
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#327 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:11 PM

Thanks for posting, Eddie. I have done basic Ancestry research on Percy Simons (not posted, but I will include him in the list of Yeoman Riflemen on the Thiepval Memorial) and noted Edgar among his seven brothers, though not that he too had the MM.
Probably the only thing I could add apart from all the general information on this thread about the battalion is that Captain Philip Lloyd-Greame (officer commanding A Company, who signed his reprimand for overstaying his leave while at Helmsley in early 1916) is given a short biography on page 9.
Liz

#328 BarnsleyBorn

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:56 PM

Ernest Carroll Nicholson and Sidney Nicholson were my Great great Uncles. Ernest lived to be 97, despite his experiences on the battlefield. My youngest daughter has been to the Thiepval memorial and seen Sidney's commemoration there - a very moving experience.
I was absolutely thrilled to find the photographs on this forum of the Platoon and both of them individually - thank you so much for adding such precious records to our family history.

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#329 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:01 PM

Hello, Deborah - it's very good to know that our efforts have been appreciated! The platoon photo was generously contributed by Jim, aka Trooper 2406, and the individual enlarged portraits were done by Chris (CPGW) so it was a combined effort.
Thank you for telling us more from the family. Was the website I referred to in my short account yours?

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#330 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:26 PM

I haven't yet got round to finishing the account of the Somme cemeteries where I visited Yeoman Riflemen's graves in May. So here's the last one.

Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval is a concentration cemetery and the five riflemen of the 21st KRRC buried here, two from September, three from October 1916, must have been brought from other small cemeteries in the Flers area, or from the battlefields, after the war.

Killed in action at Flers 15th September 1916
Memorial sites give 17th September because of the bureaucratic practice of writing ‘15/17.9.1916’ where the circumstances of death were unclear. As previously noted, the death of any man who was killed in action must have been on 15th. It is impossible to be certain what happened in most cases.

Riflemen
C/12550 Jaques, Ralph Ref XXXI.E.9

Ralph Jaques (no 'c' before the 'q') was a farmer’s son from Crowle, Lincolnshire, aged 28 and working as a bottling manager in a brewery when he attested at Crowle on 21st November 1915.

As would be expected of a Lincolnshire man, he was in D Company, stated on his (clean) conduct sheet, originally signed by RC Robinson (an officer who did not accompany the battalion to France, see my earlier account http://1914-1918.inv...25#entry1565049). He had been in hospital in Aldershot from 18 February to 30 March 1915 with influenza, according to his record, but there is no evidence of any other problem before he was killed in action near Flers on 15th September.

Both CWGC and SGDW give 17th Sept 1916 as his death date, as explained above. His mother and father, Jane and Walter, three brothers and two sisters survived him, and his sister, Mrs P. Farthing, asked for his disc in 1925: it had been found when his body was exhumed for reburial in this cemetery.
He is commemorated on the war memorial at Crowle, recorded on the Roll of Honour and Lost Ancestors websites.

C/12162 Thompson, C F W Ref XXI.E.5
Charles Frederick William Thompson was born in Easingwold in 1895, lived there (probably at his parents’ home in Long Street) and enlisted in York. His parents were both from villages near Easingwold: George, District Road Surveyor, was born in Stillington, and Rose Ada (nee Batty), his wife, in Coxwold. He was 21 when he died, and as he was recorded as a 16-year-old student in the 1911 census, and his service record does not appear to have survived, his occupation is unknown.

Both CWGC and SDGW say he died on 17th September 1915, but again if as stated he was killed in action this must have been 15th September.
He is commemorated on the Easingwold War Memorial, along with Charles Kirbyson, C/12427, a haycutter who lived in High Street (Uppleby), Easingwold. Kirbyson was in A Company, as Thompson is almost certain to have been too, and was killed in action at Gird Ridge, probably on 7th October (SDGW and CWGC give 10th – date discrepancies discussed previously). Kirbyson is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing.

There's also another Yeoman Rifleman on the Crowle memorial - I'll post separately about him.

Liz

#331 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:26 PM

By the way...
John Johnson Cranidge C/12983
While researching Ralph Jaques, the man from Crowle, Lincolnshire buried in Caterpillar Valley Cemetery and commemorated on the Crowle War Memorial, I found that another Crowle man in D Company is recorded there, John Johnson Cranidge, C/12983, Co-op grocery assistant and inn-keeper’s son. He served with the Yeoman Rifles until they were disbanded on 16th March 1918, despite being wounded in 1917, but was only a few days with the 12th Battalion when he died of wounds. The German spring offensive meant that a number of 21/KRRC 'originals' had similarly disastrous short careers with their new battalions.

As always, it is only the battalion he was with at the time of his death that is recorded on SDGW and CWGC, which both say this was on 29th March; his record says he was wounded and missing 21st March-2nd April 1918. The 12th battalion, which was in the 20th (Light) Division in Gough’s Fifth Army (thanks, Long, Long Trail website) was in action during those dates at St Quentin, at the Somme Crossings and at the battle of Rosieres; it appears that his body was never found and it was not certain at what point he went missing. His name is on the Pozieres Memorial.

In these cases it always seems unfair to me that the battalion the man trained with and served with for more than two years is not mentioned.

Liz

#332 Hett65

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Liz
Found the newspaper photographs of C/12603 Arthur Pratt of 31 Beaumont Terrace, Spennymoor, and C/12604 William Henry Close of 25 Clyde Terrace, Spennymoor in Durham Chronicle dated 19.5.1916.
John

Liz
For some reason I was unable to attach the photographs, I will contact you by pm.
John

#333 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

Thank you very much, John!
For anyone who's forgotten (!) we mentioned these two Spennymoor men about two years ago on this thread. http://1914-1918.inv...25#entry1501143
Close was killed at Flers and is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial; 'Tiger' Pratt was mentioned appreciatively for his bravery and efficiency by Anthony Eden in his book Another World. He survived the war. (There were at least two other Pratts in the battalion, Alfred from Monkwearmouth, Co. Durham and Gordon from Selby, Yorkshire, who were not related as far as I know. Both had been transferred to the 10th Bn by the time of their deaths in 1917.)


Posted Image

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#334 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

John, what was the text with the newspaper photographs? Was it just reporting that they had left for France?

Liz

#335 Hett65

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

Liz
Unfortunately no text with the photographs, it was a block of four photographs of Spennymoor men serving, and their names and regiment were beneath each photograph.
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#336 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:17 PM

Tommo21 has contacted me via this thread http://1914-1918.inv...c=200852&page=2 about his great-uncle Harry Thompson, C/12149, who was killed in action at Flers and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.  The date of death is given as 17th September by both CWGC and SDGW but as with others mentioned above, you cannot be sure when he actually died.

 

Tommo, if he was killed outright in action it would have been on 15th September, as the 21/KRRC were not in action on the following days until October. But the situation was terribly confused and the battalion records reflect this.

Unfortunately I could not find his military record.  As you will know from your own research, about two-thirds of them were burnt in WW2

 

If you search within this thread on 'Harry Thompson' you will see that early in the thread, #1466161, Trenchtrotter said that he had (three years ago) the medals for Harry Thompson and had been in touch with his family.

I thought I had found him on a photograph but later doubted this as this was a photo of men from the Helmsley estate, with one or two special exceptions, whereas your great-uncle was from Goole/Bradford, see # 1480114 and #1482384.

You may have information that would help clarify this.  it's already helpful that you've confirmed that the family moved from Goole to Bradford after he enlisted.

 

Hope to hear more from you!

Liz

 

 



#337 tommo21

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:21 PM

Liz, great to hear from you and wonderfull to finds these threads 're yeoman rifles" . My enquiries dried up a number of years ago before this forum and I lost interest. Please bear with me as I am new to forums blogs etc and will probably make mistakes etc. I Will read this thread and get back you with any questions. For info my great uncle "H" as we call him was raised in Goole and I assume enlisted in Google. His family moved to Bradford to find work after looking employment on the docks. I am not sure if H ever visited Bradford . He is remembered on the cenetaph in Goole and on a wooden memorial inside St Micheals church in Bradford. I always assumed that his family wanted him to be close to them after he died. Anyway I will be in touch. Tommo, 



#338 trenchtrotter

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:20 AM

I still have his war and victory medal and honour his memory. I was so disappointed when I offered them back to family and never heard anything again. Makes you wonder.

 

TT



#339 MBrockway

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:19 AM

Tommo21 has contacted me via this thread http://1914-1918.inv...c=200852&page=2 about his great-uncle Harry Thompson, C/12149, who was killed in action at Flers and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.  The date of death is given as 17th September by both CWGC and SDGW but as with others mentioned above, you cannot be sure when he actually died.

 

Tommo, if he was killed outright in action it would have been on 15th September, as the 21/KRRC were not in action on the following days until October. But the situation was terribly confused and the battalion records reflect this.

Unfortunately I could not find his military record.  As you will know from your own research, about two-thirds of them were burnt in WW2

 

If you search within this thread on 'Harry Thompson' you will see that early in the thread, in Post #24, Trenchtrotter said that he had (three years ago) the medals for Harry Thompson and had been in touch with his family.

I thought I had found him on a photograph but later doubted this as this was a photo of men from the Helmsley estate, with one or two special exceptions, whereas your great-uncle was from Goole/Bradford, see Post #86 and Post #98 .

You may have information that would help clarify this.  it's already helpful that you've confirmed that the family moved from Goole to Bradford after he enlisted.

 

Hope to hear more from you!

Liz

 

 

Liz / Tommo / TT,

I've converted your references to earlier posts to active links for ease of navigation :thumbsup:

Mark



#340 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:40 PM

Tommo, 

It'll take a while to go through what's on here!  

Just a point about Harry's residence:  he did enlist at Goole according to the Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) entry for him, online c/o Ancestry, but they have his residence as Bradford.

I thought that information was taken from the records we no longer have, as he would have put his address on his attestation form.  But I am not sure if it is possible that this came from later information about the family's residence.  Perhaps someone else can help with that.

 

Mark

Thanks!

 

and TT, good to know you still have Harry's medals.

 

Liz



#341 David Underdown

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:08 PM

The residence info is actually often the address of the next of kin - many versions of the attestation forms didn't acutally have anywhere for the man to write his own full address, just the town he was living in - so in this case it would match up well with other family living in Bradford, assuming he was single at least.

#342 tommo21

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 07:34 PM

TT WHEN you contacted me I unfortunately did not get any of your contact details and so I could not get back in touch With you. Like yourself I have often wondered what happened and sad that I wasn't' able to see his medals. I was amazed when Liz told me about your post on this site. WOW.



#343 tommo21

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:44 PM

What was/is an attestation form?

David, yes he was single.



#344 trenchtrotter

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:02 PM

tommo21, can you send / recieve pms yet?

 

Attestation form is the document you signed when enlisting.......signing to recieve the Kings shilling.

 

 

TT



#345 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:11 PM

TT, I recently discovered anyone can send and receive pms (Tommo - private messages) - the rule that you have to have made several posts has been abolished.

 

If I was better at computer matters and not a bit pushed for time this evening I would like to post a screen grab of a typical Yeoman Rifles attestation form, which did give space for the address, incidentally. Some time I will!

 

Liz



#346 tommo21

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:53 PM

Liz, ref your post 30 about a photo by Gerald Dennis. I am unable to open the attachment on my new Kindle. Is the attachment still available or is it me and my Kindle that have a problem ?



#347 tommo21

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:56 PM

TT How can I send / receive a PM ?

I am a novice at this and struggling with a new Kindle fire. !!!!



#348 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:00 PM

Liz, ref your post 30 about a photo by Gerald Dennis. I am unable to open the attachment on my new Kindle. Is the attachment still available or is it me and my Kindle that have a problem ?

 

That link doesn't work for me now either but I have found it again by Googling so try this:

 

http://www.krrcassoc...hoolteacher.pdf

 

I'll replace the one at #30.

 

Liz



#349 tommo21

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:01 PM

TT I tried to send you a PM but got an message back saying that you were not accepting PM's.



#350 Liz in Eastbourne

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:04 PM

TT How can I send / receive a PM ?

I am a novice at this and struggling with a new Kindle fire. !!!!

 

You pm'd me yesterday!  If you hover over TT's name a box should come up with a few details.  On the left is 'Send a message' and if you click on that you can write a pm to him.

EDIT

Just seen your message - it looks as if TT's box is full but with any luck he'll look here.

 

Liz







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