17 replies to this topic

[towisuk]

Hi, I'm having trouble finding out where John Joseph Giddings 169976, of the 5th Siege Batttery RGA enlisted. If an anyone as an idea of where he may have enlisted I would be most grateful for your help.
regards
Tom

[Peter J]

Hello Tom,

This man's WWI pension records and MIC are available online - I presume you must already have these?

Having said that - there is only one page in the pension records, which says he transferred to the Royal Engineers (Transport Branch) in February 1919, also indicated on his MIC.

No info regarding place of enlistment, I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Peter.

[apwright]

Is this him?

Birth name Joseph John GIDDINGS, but known as John or Jack (he's Jack in 1901, John in 1911).
Born in Urchfont, Wilts, Q4 1892, christened on Christmas Day, son of Joseph and Kate (formerly SMITH, with 2 daughters from previous marriage, maiden name BOND).
Living in West Lavington in 1901. Mother already widowed (again!). Brother Alfred was born c.1894.
Living in Immingham, Lincs, in 1911 (as John SMITH!), where mother Kate SMITH is running a Boarding House at 20 Humberville Rd.
Married Elizabeth May HUNT in Kidderminster, Worcs, Q4 1917.
3 daughters and 1 son born in Spilsby/Glanford Brigg districts between 1919 and 1926.
Died 23 Sept 1937 in Scunthorpe, aged 44.

Adrian

[towisuk]

What can I say.......thank you for your replies gentlemen.

Peter, yes that Pension record and MIC was all I had, and as you say not much in the way of detail...

Adrian, That's my man, at least I know where he was living now at the outbreak of war.....
your reply cleared up some questions I couldn't find an answer to..
many thanks to you both for excellent work..
best regards
Tom

[SFayers]

Hi Tom,

Can't help with place of enlistment, but going by his number he probably joined 5 Siege Battery, at the earliest, around or just before September 1917 (Gunner 167954 George Goddard was killed in action with 5 Siege Battery on 23rd September at Krupp Farm during the 3rd Ypres, and he certainly hadn't been with the battery very long). He could, of course, have been part of a replacement draft at anytime thereafter, but there is also a possibility that he may have trained and gone out to France with 453 Siege Battery - this battery was broken up in February 1918 with half the men, guns, and equipment going to 5 Siege Battery, the other half going to 4 Siege Battery. Both these batteries were in 46 Brigade RGA at the time (still in the Ypres salient) and remained with the brigade till the end of the war.

All the best

Steve

[towisuk]

Hi Steve, many tanks for that information, any stuff I can gather on this one is a big help..
best regards
Tom

[SFayers]

No worries Tom,

My main interest funnily enough is 5 Siege Battery (my granddad's unit) . If you think I can help any further please let me know.

May I ask if John Geddings is a relative? You may (or may not!) be aware from my other postings on the forum that I'm slowly writing a website commemorating 5 Siege Battery and the men who served during the war. (You may remember kindly photographing Gunner George Marston's grave in Mory Abbey Military Cemetery for me!) If you have a contemporary photo of John or anything biographical you might like me to include I'd be more than happy to do so (you would, of course, be acknowledged).

All the best

Steve

[towisuk]

Ok Steve, no Joseph John Giddings is not related to me, he is the relative of a friend who came up against a brick wall, when it came to finding out something of his service during WW1.
I'll ask him if he has anything that may be of use to you, beyond what Adrian so kindly posted above....
Strangely enough, the reason I was able to do Mory Abbey cemetery for you, was due to this same friends uncle from the other branch of the family, who was lost in the attack on Mory copse.  
regards
Tom

[Kwachman]

Steve

I've seen a number of your postings on 5th Siege Battery and thought perhaps you might be able to help identify a man who wrote to my grandmother from France. The letter is dated 10 November 1914 and he says that they have been "away from England for 6 weeks and at the front for a fortnight", which fits with a late Sept departure date. The letter ends with only initials which are P followed by what could be a D, but could also be a number of other letters, including S and W, but with 5th Siege Battery, 2nd Siege Brigade alongside (see attached). I assume he was relatively local to my Gran's home in Ayrshire or up to Glasgow way, and could be a relative or a friend as his letter seems to show an easy familiarity with my Gran and her immediate family, including asking if her father could buy him a watch!

Sorry, it is not much to go on and long shot, but I would be interested to know who he is.

Thanks for any help or advice

 19141110 PD p9.jpg   108.34K   0 downloads

Kwachman

[SFayers]

Hi,

From the list I have to hand, there are a few possibilities. Their association with 5 S Bty is based on the man's Medal Index Card, medal roll entry, and (where I've managed to trace them) service papers; I must stress that the MIC details do not always match the medal roll details (for example, the number of MICs quoting 5 Siege Battery exceed the nominal establishment of the battery when it went out to France in September 1914) - so they are not definitive.


Gunner 17309 Patrick Warnock

Gunner 31238 Patrick Walsh

Bombardier 24502 Percival Vine MM & Bar (outside possibility it could be a V?)

Lieutenant Colonel Percy Douglas Hamilton (the first OC 5 Siege Battery in France). I've not seen his service papers as yet and I'll need to check the 1914 war diary entries to see if the handwriting matches; he would be my favourite in this instance, but, as you say, the nature of the writing is very familiar. The 1901 census, interestingly, has him a Captain in the Royal Artillery at Dundonald in Ayshire.

Gunner 21310 Phillips Smyth (born in Dublin and attested in 1904 under the name of Peter Kirwan)


There are a few other 1914 men with the first initial P who possibly served with 5 S Bty at the time, but their other initials don't appear to be contenders:

Phillip Charles Bowers, Patrick Canning (this chap was more likely to be 5 Mountain Bty), Percy Carter, Patrick Connolly, Percy Harold Craggs, Patrick Crowley, P McNulty, Patrick J O'Connor, Percy C? Parker, and Percy Pruce.

(If you suspect any of these others I can post some more details.)


All the best

Steve

[Kwachman]

Thanks Steve

None of the names ring a bell at all, but will investigate further and see what I come up with. From the other contents of the letter I would guess he was an officer and the Hamilton one is possible. The letter is quite a strange one for a man to be sending a young woman from the middle of a war zone. I will send you a transcript if you would like, once I have done it. I see you have a Seaforth Highlander in your In memory list: my Gran's brother Charles G Tennant was in 1/4th Battalion also and was killed in the Aubers Ridge action on 9 May 1915.

Thanks again

Kwachman

[SFayers]

Hi Kwachman,

Just checking the war diary entries for 1914 signed by Lt Col Hamilton; he signs himself P D Hamilton, and I have to say in all instances the initial 'D' is written in exactly the same curious way as in your letter. Elsewhere the calligraphy in his diary entries and your letter are also highly comparable (upper case 'C', 'L', 'G' and the words 'from' and 'Germans', for example, are identical); so much so I'd put money on it being the same chap.

My scanner at home is not working at the moment, but when I'm able to I'll post some examples of his signature for you to compare.

All the best

Steve

[Kwachman]

Thanks again Steve

I attach a transcript for your possible interest. There are some oddities which I note at the end of the document. I would be interested to see a scan of the Lt-Cols handwriting whenever you are able.

Kwachman

Attached Files

•  19141110 Letter from PD to LGT.rtf   6.35K   8 downloads

[SFayers]

Hi Kwatchman,

Thanks for posting the transcript - it makes interesting reading. As you say, the start of the letter gives you the impression he's writing to a young girl - it makes me wonder if he had been a family friend for a long time and had known her from a very young age (in 1914 Percy Douglas Hamilton would have been about 47 years old); still, it seems quite an odd way for anyone to address a young lady!

'Ex-Fnce' almost certainly means Expenditionary Force France (or simply Expenditionary Force if what looks like an 'n' is actually 'r'). Considering the information and descriptions he gives regarding the action of the German snipers and the experiences of the infantry I'm a little surprised he doesn't mention, even in passing, that he'd only just lost one of his own officers to a sniper 3 days earlier (the officer had been shot whilst attending to a wounded infantryman). The 'fierce battle' he refers to may well be the Battle of Armentieres, which was going on when the battery arrived in that area of the front in the October (the Battles of Messines and La Bassee were also in progress around the same time), but, of course, at the time of writing his letter the First Battle of Ypres was in full swing further north.

The 'house keeping in the mess' may seem a curious one, however, other contemporary accounts I've read of other batteries, which were mostly written by officers, suggest that 'in the field' there was at least some degree of 'mucking in' to make their billets, etc. clean and more comfortable. I could appreciate sub-alterns doing this sort of work, but I don't know if a Commanding Officer would ever be seen to be doing the same thing - maybe it depended on the individual?

The reference to the 'guns' being hidden in an orchard is potentially a useful one. At this time the two sections of the battery were separated - the left section being on a farm on the Rue D'Acquets, north of Bois Grenier and the right section at Croix Blanche, south of Fleurbaix; there are no trench map co-ordinates to say exactly where the positions were, so the orchard reference may help me to pin the locality of one of the sections down further.

I will post scans for you when I can.


Kind regards

Steve

[SFayers]

Scanner working again!

First off, here's an example of Percy Douglas Hamilton's signature (note the distinctive 'D' and identical '5th Siege'):

 PDHamilton1.jpg   42.27K   0 downloads

[SFayers]

Examples of hand writing (diary entries around the date of the letter). Note the way he writes 'German', 'L, and 'S':

 PDHamilton2.jpg   84.41K   0 downloads

In this example, note again 'L' and the similarity in the eway he writes 'from':

 PDHamilton3.jpg   81.7K   0 downloads


Hope this helps!


All the best

Steve

[Kwachman]

Steve

Thanks a lot - that is definitely that mystery solved. I have asked my sister back in Scotland (I'm in Africa at the moment) to have a look for any references in my Gran's diaries, which I belatedly thought about.

Thanks again, Kwachman

[SFayers]

Glad to be of help. If you do find anything else regarding Percy Hamilton I'd be very interested to hear.

For your reference, P D Hamilton remained the OC 5th Siege Battery until the end of January 1915. He was posted back to serve in the UK, and left the battery on the 1st February 1915; he later became OC Harwich Garrison.

Kind regards

Steve