109 replies to this topic

[bluedog]

Martin
  Do you have approx. date for your visit next summer?

  I will be there April , May and June

  Peter

[Martin G]

bluedog, on 11 December 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

Martin
  Do you have approx. date for your visit next summer?

  I will be there April , May and June

  Peter

No dates yet fixed... but I am thinking of doing 2 trips as I had to cancel this year due to work load. I will definitely avoid the April crush though.  

I wonder if anyone knows when the sunflower crops are sown and when they are harvested? I went in July 2010 when the sunflowers were very tall and obscured many of the views around Hetman Chair, so I would prefer to avoid and period when the crops are high. Thought about  August in order to retrace the steps on the same dates and similar conditions of the Suvla Bay landing. Having said that I would be very open to going at the same time as anyone with detailed knowledge. I will avoid the 'guided battlefield tours' as I find them too broad-brushed and (no doubt through time restrictions) not deep enough. Also need to scramble up hills on my own and I am primarily interested in Suvla Bay up to and including Hill 60.  My main aims for my next trip:

1. Hetman Chair, Dead Man's Gully research.
2. W Hills and Scimitar Hill - pinpointing the Turkish trench system.
3. The line of advance of the 6th (Pioneer) Bn East Yorks towards Tekke Tepe on 9th August. This will involve going up a few of the possible routes from Sulajik to Tekke Tepe so it will be quite arduous and (I think) may take more than one day.
4. Lines of Advance of the various Bdes of the 10th and 11th Divs 6th-8th August.

MG

[Gully Ravine]

Martin G, on 11 December 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Keith - I think we are getting closer. To be honest I don't think I will resolve this in my own mind until I walk the ground again with copies of the original photos, and that is unlikely to happen until next summer. As an aside, I was trawling through the HQ 32nd Inf Bde war diaries and in the bundle was a sketch map of the Hetman Chair area and a typewritten description of the Turkish trench lines based on aerial photos in early August  plus a description of the disposition of the Turkish troops based on a Turkish Officer's (POW) description. The combination of these  and especially the sketch map indicates that there was definitely an outwork or redoubt beyond the apex of the Hetman Chair trenches i.e. slightly further west than the trench maps would indicate and certainly at least 100 yards NW to NNW from that apex - heading towrads the area we have been discussing. The detail is in the HQ 32nd Bde war diary ahead of their attack in the area  - part of the 11th Div War Diaries bundle available on-line.

I need to do more work on this, but I am now certain that there was a reinforced house or redoubt in that area which may well have been abandoned after the actions of the 21st Aug. MG

What I can't quite get my head round - the GE image shows an 'old' building / ruin, as does the trench map.  I have several photos of the area, but the only one that shows a ruined building doesn't have it in a position that matches the location of that on GE.  "Need input" as Johnny-Five would say ...

Keith

[Martin G]

Dear All - a QODY photographer seems to have captured an almost identical image to the very first photo posted by Krithia on this thread. Note the distinctive trees on the horizon, and the position of the man in the near ground. The same area photographed from a slightly different position I think. This one is captioned "Dead Infantrymen and Yeomen lie amidst the scrub on Scimitar Hill"  ...I think it unlikely it is Scimitar Hill. MG

http://www.keepmilit...&sid=&CatID=128

[muzza]

Well, what an interesting thread about a "ghost" building. To add grist to the mill, with my trained artist's eye the "building" is but an illusion and it stands out to me from the more recent photo of the same ridge line. The "building" is but a gap in the trees with rising land on the ridge line, appearing to be a blockhouse but IMHO, is in fact partially cleared or farmed earth. I can see the supposed building but it is not really there.
I appreciate that the orginal campaign photo was taken from a lower angle and possibly closer than the recent photo and no doubt trees have grown or moved in this time. Even if the location is from a  different angle I have marked a remarkably similar aspect which may be fooling out eyes into believing we are seeing a blockhouse.

[Gully Ravine]

I agree with muzza - I have several photos of that area which exhibit similar 'shapes'.

Regards

Keith

[Martin G]

I note Thales made this observation early on in the thread. I have attached a B&W version of my original photo to show how it would appear now. MG

Attached Files

•  CIMG3761B-1.JPG   43.86K   0 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Another view  that I believe confirms we are in the right area ... Krithia's b/w image from post #13 overlaid with a section of a (semi-transparent) photo taken last year (moved down slightly to show the skyline) ... Keith


 Merged dead man 2.jpg   68.68K   0 downloads

[SMG65]

I have been loaned a photo album by my mother in law's friend.
It belonged to her cousin, Herbert Sydney Green who served with the Middlesex Hussars (1st County of London)

It has about 200 photos in it and each one has written in pen under it details of the photo and the names of soldiers in the photos.

The photos are of England, Gallipoli, Le Havre, Suez, Geneffe, Bela, Damascus, etc.

There are some photos in it that I have seen before, Chocolate Hill, Dead Mans Gully.
However there are a lot of individual soldiers, (Troopers Andrews, O'Shea, Summerfield, Taylor, Burdett, Faulkes, Owen, Cpls Twinkentine & Luker, to name a few)

I'm a Western Front man and don't know much about this unit or its actions, so could anybody give me a timeline of their postings/actions please.
I am going to try and track her cousins war and write it up for her (at no charge).

Sean

[Martin G]

SMG65, on 12 February 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

I have been loaned a photo album by my mother in law's friend.
It belonged to her cousin, Herbert Sydney Green who served with the Middlesex Hussars (1st County of London)

It has about 200 photos in it and each one has written in pen under it details of the photo and the names of soldiers in the photos.

The photos are of England, Gallipoli, Le Havre, Suez, Geneffe, Bela, Damascus, etc.

There are some photos in it that I have seen before, Chocolate Hill, Dead Mans Gully.
However there are a lot of individual soldiers, (Troopers Andrews, O'Shea, Summerfield, Taylor, Burdett, Faulkes, Owen, Cpls Twinkentine & Luker, to name a few)

I'm a Western Front man and don't know much about this unit or its actions, so could anybody give me a timeline of their postings/actions please.
I am going to try and track her cousins war and write it up for her (at no charge).

Sean

Dear Sean. I have a fair deal of info on the Middlesex Hussars for the period from the outbreak of the War up to and including Gallipoli. The main sources are;


1.  "Historical Records of the Middlesex Hussars 1797- 1927" by Charles Stonham and Benson Freeman which covers WWI of course.
2. "Yarn of a Yeoman" by SF Hatton who served in WWI
3. "In the Sideshows" by Capt Wedgwood Benn (later Lord Stansgate) acting Adj at Gallipoli
4.  War Diary cover the regiment's service in WWI in detail. Available online from the National Archives for only £3.50
5. Trooper Bulwinkle Middlesex Hussars Diary 11th Apr - 9th Sep 1915 (National Army Museum)
6. SSM Dixon's Album  - Liddle Collection - I suspect some of the photos will be the same as Dixon's photos appear in a few places with multiple archives claiming copyright.

I have copies of 1-5 as well as the 1914-15 Star Hussars Medal Roll from the National Archive (all Regular and Yeomanry (TF) Hussar Regiments were bundled into one massive alphabetical medal roll - 660 pages). I photographed every page so if you need to check names against the medal roll and compare to the MICs it can sometimes be useful to resolve anomalies in name spellings/MIC transcription errors. The MICs were compiled from these rolls, so in theory the rolls should have fewer errors.

Edit: The following men appear on the roll
1. 463 Pte Ernest H Luker 1 C of L Y Disembarked (3) on 28.4.15... KIA 27.10.17
2. 3169 Pte John M Owen  1 C of L Y Disembarked (3) on 28.4.15  ... AR"Z" 3.3.19
3. 3226 L/Cpl Reginald Faulkes 1 C of L Y Disembarked (3) on 29.4.15 commissioned into the MGC

By the standards of the Yeomanry who served at Gallipoli there is more information on this unit than any other so you are in luck. The period in Egypt and Palestine is equally well served.
I have PM'd  you with more details. Regards MG