150 replies to this topic

[Martin G]

...And another map from the same papers,. This time the dressing station has moved slightly. Map is dated 29th Nov 1915.

Attached Files

•  CIMG5104-1.JPG   89.22K   4 downloads

[AndyR]

Thanks Martin

The maps are very clear and as you have said previously, it seems likely that the position of a dressing station might well have been maintained. If I have got my orientation right, these locations, and particularly the latter, seem to be very close to the photograph of the well you posted earlier? I suppose it makes sense that the dressing station would be near a well, though I had got the impression from Hargrave that the wells on Kiretch Tepe weren't used for fear they were poisoned, and that most/all of the water was shipped in, at least in August?

Thanks

Andy

[Martin G]

AndyR, on 13 February 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

Thanks Martin

The maps are very clear and as you have said previously, it seems likely that the position of a dressing station might well have been maintained. If I have got my orientation right, these locations, and particularly the latter, seem to be very close to the photograph of the well you posted earlier? I suppose it makes sense that the dressing station would be near a well, though I had got the impression from Hargrave that the wells on Kiretch Tepe weren't used for fear they were poisoned, and that most/all of the water was shipped in, at least in August?

Thanks

Andy

Andy - I have a list somewhere from the CRE papers listing the grid references of all the wells that were operational. The photo is actually a spring (Cheshme or Punar in Turkish) not a well (Kuyu in Turkish) - a subtle difference as it is more difficult to poison a spring than a well, so I think locating the support near a spring would make great sense.

[Gully Ravine]

Hi

Spent a lot of time during our last trip on Kiretch Tepe - especially in what I believe is the Lone Tree Gully area.  Only recently back and yet to sort all photos and satnav tracks out to confirm locations more accurately - but what are the chances of this dead tree being "the one"?  It was located exactly in the area I believe to be Lone Tree Gully.

Quick Google search shows small dead trees can remain standing for 'decades' - assuming it is not subject to battle damage!

Regards

Keith

Attached Files

•  IMG_2339s.jpg   57.86K   2 downloads

[AndyR]

Keith

Great picture ... or 'son of' maybe?!
Reasonably deep looking gully in the background ...?
Looking forward to further installments!

Thanks for updating us

Andy

[Martin G]

Gully Ravine, on 29 September 2011 - 09:28 PM, said:

Hi

Spent a lot of time during our last trip on Kiretch Tepe - especially in what I believe is the Lone Tree Gully area.  Only recently back and yet to sort all photos and satnav tracks out to confirm locations more accurately - but what are the chances of this dead tree being "the one"?  It was located exactly in the area I believe to be Lone Tree Gully.

Quick Google search shows small dead trees can remain standing for 'decades' - assuming it is not subject to battle damage!

Regards

Keith

Any idea what kind of tree... I think Lone Tree gully was also known as Pear Tree Gully......looks like a fruit tree to me and I don't recall there being any orchards in the area. I think fruit trees can last a very long time and are difficult to kill.... MG

[muzza]

Interested in the debate re Jephson's Post.....

I walked the ridge from the Gendarme memorial several years back....this is my photo of what I believed to be Jephson's Post.

[npm]

muzza, on 02 January 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Interested in the debate re Jephson's Post.....
I walked the ridge from the Gendarme memorial several years back....this is my photo of what I believed to be Jephson's Post.

Thanks Muzza, great photograph - I think it might be the spot where my great-grandfather fell.

[Gully Ravine]

I've been overlaying trench names on a Sevket Pasha map  - around Dublin Castle and north to the southern slopes of Kiretch Tepe.  I've then added this to GE.  Hope the names are legible (and correct!).  I have loads of photos and will include a few after this post.  Now working on applying the names of the trenches to a map of the north side of the ridge.

Keith

Attached Files

•  Capture3.jpg   92.96K   5 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Taken at point A in post #134, with what I believe is Lone Tree Gully running diagonally right to left up the hill (behind the tree) towards the Grave Yard (south of point B )

Attached Files

•  IMG_2340.jpg   93.98K   1 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Taken at point C in post #134 looking towards the Grave Yard

Attached Files

•  IMG_2344.jpg   86.87K   0 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Taken at point B in post #134

Attached Files

•  IMG_2354.jpg   83.69K   0 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Taken from within Dublin Street trench (again around point B ) in post #134

Attached Files

•  IMG_2358.jpg   90.87K   1 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Finally, for now, taken just north of point A in post #134 where I was looking for flattish areas where a dressing station may have been positioned - but can’t yet confirm.

Keith

Attached Files

•  IMG_2389.jpg   97.26K   0 downloads

[AndyR]

Thanks Keith

Brilliant photos – I feel sure you’ve got the spot – I can see similarities between Hargrave’s sketch in #44 and both your #137 & #135.

#135 may be a bit too open – but a little artistic licence / distorted memory to narrow the gully bottom and it’s a pretty good match – though it’s not clear where the trench runs – and indeed your map suggests there isn’t a trench at point A?

#137 may be a better match as I guess the person is pretty much at the trench (Dublin Street on your map?) and the gully looks more enclosed? But I struggle to orientate myself – do you remember which way the photo is looking? Towards the front line (i.e. the ridge is to the left)?

Which do you think is more likely?

Sorry – you offer up great photos and all you get back are more questions!

Thanks again

Andy

[AndyR]

Keith

As usual I jumped in too quickly before I'd gone back over other posts ... !?

Looking at the last map extract in Michael’s #39 it looks like the eponymous tree may be somewhere near your point C?

Was there any evidence of the overgrown water-course / little dry-bed stream mentioned by Hargrave (#118) – maybe in the area of B?

Is your #139 near the dressing station on Martin’s #126 map?

Thanks

Andy

[Gully Ravine]

Hi Andy


Let me check ... I have many more photos and a satnav track marked with waypoints which I can also overlay on GE. I did (embarrassingly) put a post in the ‘Using the Technology’ forum which outlined my satnav / camera problems which I prefer not to reproduce here!

Keith

[Gully Ravine]

Here goes again … a few images follow posted to get a post id# and then a summary post. I hope this isn't too confusing with all the cross references to posts.  Not a criticism of the forum, but it is difficult to get several images of reasonable size plus some words into a single post. Must be a better way ... like a web site.  Now where was I with that ... Keith

[Gully Ravine]

Gap from Lone Tree Gully into The Grave Yard

Attached Files

•  IMG_2350.jpg   84.27K   0 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

The Grave Yard with  a rather feint X marking the spot where vbeach stood in post #137.

Attached Files

•  IMG_2366.jpg   83.02K   1 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

The front line?

Dry stream bed?

Attached Files

•  IMG_2376.jpg   82.33K   2 downloads
•  IMG_2379.jpg   91.22K   1 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Satnav trak

Attached Files

•  KT_track_2.jpg   65.02K   0 downloads

[Gully Ravine]

Andy
  
Like you, I'm confident that we are in the right area ... will be going back later in the year and plan to take a little more care with satnav readings and photo dates / times etc so I document exact locations next time (assuming MartinG hasn't cracked it by then – he is there now and I know he has spent time on KT during his trip).

If we are in the right location, then there would have been a trench running right up the meadow shown in #136.  I did try to persuade myself I could still see the outline of this when looking along at ground level, but the photos I took don't show this and I may have been trying to persuade myself of something that isn't there.

#135 is quite wide, but it does seem to match the contours on the maps / sketches. Possibly the Hargrave sketch was a little 'artistic', but there may also have been smaller tracks off the main route which gave this perspective.  For example, assuming in #135 you moved to the right to get the tree on the skyline, you could just about accept that the shrubs would be close on either side of the tree. There is a small 'gully' onto the main meadow which runs past the tree that could also give this sort of perspective.

'The person' in #137 is Commander vbeach (Lyn) modelling the autumn 2011 Officer's Uniform!  She is standing in the Dublin Street trench pretty much at a point below pin B in #134.  As you exit the meadow into The Grave Yard, there is a small gap in the shrubs (you can see this in #134 left of the 'G' in Grave) and in post #144 which was taken at 40°19'46.33"N,26°15'58.26"E.  She walked through this gap, turned left and dropped (not literally!) into the trench around pin B.  She is facing S:E i.e. looking across The Grave Yard.  #138 is taken in the section of Dublin Street approximately above the 'e' in Grave, looking towards pin B (i.e N:W).

Post #145 shows The Grave Yard looking N:E across to where Lyn was standing marked by X. KT Ridge in the background.

I must be really slow, but I actually hadn't noticed all the detail in the sketch in Michael's #39 until now.  Is the icon to the left of the 'Grave Yard' text and below the trench supposed to represent the 'Lone Tree'?  

If so, missed it entirely until now and it does place the tree around point C in #134.  If the sketch in #39 is to be believed, the tree would be to the right of the trench, i.e. towards the southern side of LTG, where it gets even wider (which questions the Hargrave sketch again).  However, move it further S:W 100 yds or so and it narrows down somewhat.  The photo of the tree in #135 and #129 is taken from 40°19'44.68"N, 26°15'50.13"E.

There are several features around this area that could be watercourses, such as the one in post #146.

In post #139, my belief was that I was standing on or around the word 'DUMP' in Martin's post #126, looking in a general N:W direction (i.e. looking over the pink asterisk, along the dotted line towards the rounded end of the contour line).  However, I can't guarantee this – but certainly in that area.  From memory and satnav waypoints, the photo was taken from 40°19'45.96"N, 26°15'46.63"E looking N:E?

The first picture in post #146 is taken from 40°19'52.92"N, 26°16'4.20" looking Eastwards over the frontline (i.e. from along one of the paths you can see above Marble Arch in #134).

Finally, post #147 is a satnav track of the walk we did around this area when the preceding photos were taken.

Keith

[AndyR]

Thanks for the further update Keith - makes the layout of the graveyard much clearer - thanks
Don't know that the 'icon' is the lone tree - just my guess - and it may only be indicative in any case
Overall I think your #135 looks good and seems to be in a position that eveyone would notice when going along this gully route
Though as you say we may just be seeing what we hope to see!
Andy

[michaeldr]

I'm in two minds as to whether or not these should be added to this thread, or to a new one, but there are so many goods maps here of the Kiretch Tepe ridge & of Jephson's that these might as well be here too
The images are borrowed from the 'Sea Your History' web-site
http://www.seayourhistory.org.uk/component/option,com_rnm_homepage/Itemid,81/
but try as I might, I cannot seem to find there any further information on Watson or his diary. If anyone else has better luck than I, then please let me know how: it must make an interesting contribution to the history of the Navy's efforts on land at Gallipoli and at Suvla in particular











"The officer who runs the machine guns at Jephson's post, which belong to the armoured car section of the R.N.A.S., is Arthur Borton, from Cheveney. Extraordinary running up against him out here. He is doing very good work there, and has a lively time; the enemy shell the place all day."
from The Naval Review, Vol. IV,