11 replies to this topic

[stevebecker]

Mates,

Does anuone know the make up of Russian Mounted Jager units during WWI.

Another site mentioned they formed four Bn's per Regt (as Infantry) but that seams strange concidering they were Mouned Jager or Cavalry.

Any ideas here?

S.B

[apple]

Russian Mounted Jager??? Interesting terminology... Not sure what your source is. But, I'd suggest anyone talking about "Russian Jagers" probably isn't a native speaker of English and I'd be suspicious of using their terms.

[stevebecker]

Mate,

I must admit to not having heard of a mounted Jager in the Russian Army, other then the Foot Jager Regts, but this was mentioned on another site.

Forumistas

The light mounted rifleman was used extensively in the Russian military prior to the Great War. The theory and practical operation of these units is of interest to us as they were similar to those used in Australian military thinking. The Russians had vast open spaces to defend which contained a dispersed population of farmers with poor transport infrastructure, a similar circumstance that met Australian military planners.

To give you the flavour of this thought, in the next post I have a Googlish translation of the following article.

Поручик Веселовский, Охотничьи команды, 1897 ВОЕННЫЙ СБОРНИК, том ССXXXV, С.-Петербург

or in Latin script:

Lieutenant Veselovsky, Hunting Team, 1897 MILITARY COLLECTION, Volume CCXXXV, St. Petersburg

Any ideas?

S.B

[Robert Dunlop]

The Germans had a small number of Jaeger zu Pferde units during the war, literally mounted Jaeger. I don't know of the term being used in the Russian army. As you suggest, the concept could possibly be applied to some cavalry formations.

Robert

[apple]

I think I've got the wrong end of the stick. I was objecting more to the use of Jäger as an English word. But, if you consider it a legitimate English word, fair enough. To expand on my original post, what I think has happened is someone, to use the aforementioned Google Translate as an example, has copy-paste-entered the Russian word for "(unit designation), elite mounted rifleman" and have got the answer: X battalion, X regiment Mounted Jagers.

As to Cavalry having battalions, I don't really see any problem with that. A quick google comes up with 3rd Battalion, 8th Cavalry Regiment a US Indian War formation

[John Gilinsky]

Cross-cultural influences aside your source(s) may be referring to ethnic Baltic Germanic or even possibly (less so) Volga Germanic composed smaller units of mounted rifles.  I strongly suspect the Baltics area is your best bet and that the source(s) may even refer to short lived (say c.1915?) mounted home guard units OR end of war/post-war Revolutionary period in the Baltics with freikorps type units being established.
John

[stevebecker]

Mate,

As far as I am aware the term Jager or Jaeger in the Russian Army started before the Napoleonic Wars where a number of Jager Regts (Foot Jager) were formed and used. (Yes it was adopted from the German units)

The Russian Guards had a Jager Bn and saw action at Austerlitz in 1805.

So why wouldn't the Jager continued on in Russian Serice and formed a mounted unit as per the questions above?

Lke I said I haven't seen any Ref to a mounted Jager (Rifleman) but does that mean there wasn't one?

Were there not a Jager Divison used in 1914?

S.B

[jwsleser]

I am catching up in this folder.

Steve, can you provide the source for this comment? There were no Mounted Jager units in a 1GM Russian Army. There was a period of time (1883 to 1907) that all cavalry units were classified as dragoons. In 1907, the traditional designations were re-instituted.

It is possible that a traditional name of Mounted Jager was used for a particular regiment, but Mounted Jager had been superseded by Dragoon as a cavalry type in the mid-1800s. Certainly no division-level unit was created with this title.

A regular cavalry division during the war consisted of a Dragoon and Lancer regiment in the 1st Brigade, and a Hussar and Cossack regiment in the 2nd Brigade. Functionally, there was no difference between the four regiments. It was all uniform and tradition.

A source might help figure this out.

Jeff

[stevebecker]

Mate,

Yes sorry about that but this is the question posed to me;

"Forumistas

The light mounted rifleman was used extensively in the Russian military prior to the Great War. The theory and practical operation of these units is of interest to us as they were similar to those used in Australian military thinking. The Russians had vast open spaces to defend which contained a dispersed population of farmers with poor transport infrastructure, a similar circumstance that met Australian military planners.

To give you the flavour of this thought, in the next post I have a Googlish translation of the following article.

Поручик Веселовский, Охотничьи команды, 1897 ВОЕННЫЙ СБОРНИК, том ССXXXV, С.-Петербург

or in Latin script:

Lieutenant Veselovsky, Hunting Team, 1897 MILITARY COLLECTION, Volume CCXXXV, St. Petersburg

Any ideas?

Its not much

Cheers

S.B

[teghist]

Mounted jaegers (конные егеря) units in Russian army  were renamed into dragoons
after 1831. Infantry jaeger units  were transformed into ordinary infantry after Crimean war.
If I not mistaken, after 1856 only one regiment wore the name Jaeger - but it was a guard unit.

[Cossack Wolf]

teghist, on 23 April 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

Mounted jaegers (конные егеря) units in Russian army  were renamed into dragoons
after 1831. Infantry jaeger units  were transformed into ordinary infantry after Crimean war.
If I not mistaken, after 1856 only one regiment wore the name Jaeger - but it was a guard unit.

Beat me to it, Russian dragoons were formerly classed as Jaegers!

There were 4 categories of Cavalry in the Russian Army of WWI - Hussars, Lancers, Dragoons & Cossacks. There is an old saying "the Hussars looked down on the Lancers, the Lancers looked down on the Dragoons & all three despised the Cossacks!" This was because the Cossacks were raised from childhood as horsemen & had a far more natural ability than any of the others & used this to ridicule them at every opportunity. It is an old Cossack tradition to sit a child on horse before he can walk.


regards....Andy

[jwsleser]

Steve

Sorry. I see you provided this same info earlier in the thread. I didn’t pay much attention to it given the other responses. My bad.

Given the date and the title of the article, I suspect that the article is discussing the Okhotniki. Prior to 1904, the East Siberian rifle regiments had mounted scout detachments (Okhotniki, sometimes referred to as Hunter Detachments). 16 of the best soldiers (usually volunteers and not conscripts) in each battalion were selected, mounted on horses, and trained. These detachments were often consolidated into a company-size formation and employed by the regiment or brigade. During the Russo-Japanese War, they proved quite useful and were usually a division-level asset after the formation of the East Siberian divisions in 1904. After the war, such detachments became part of the regular infantry organization.

The various military observer reports (RJW) document these units. I also have several articles from RUSI from the 1890s discussing their development.

I again doubt that this article is referring to a regular cavalry type. Even after the renaming and renumbering of the Russian cavalry in 1907 (bringing back the traditional cavalry types, lancers, and hussars in addition to the existing dragoons), all Russian cavalry were trained as dragoons. Unlike other European armies that still separated the roles of close combat and mobile firepower by cavalry types, Russian cavalry was trained in both and made no distinction in role based on types. Cossacks were fully organized and trained as line cavalry. All could execute a mounted charge and all could maneuver, dismount, and bring fire. General Gurko describes the use of his lancers as dismounted troops in his capture of Marggrabowa in 1914.

Jeff