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Posted 09 March 2011 - 12:43 AM
Posted 09 March 2011 - 09:19 AM
Andy: Although I enjoy learning about the technical side of things, I find myself motivated by the humanity of the matter. We have a photograph of a soldier and his wife. He lived and breathed and fought and, at some point, died. Who was he? Who were his comrades? This is what tends to drive me - as well as the fact that I was a forensic ethicist to profession and I like to establish as many verifiable facts as possible before defaulting to probability and then possibility. Unfortunately, at this remove from the War, the default positions are often all we can achieve. I'm intrigued by this case and would be delighted if we could pin the high-probability medal ribbon (pardon the pun) to a high-probability or even fact-based British uniform. Hence my looking at the script on the boards again and suggesting that the first letter is possible the "wrong-way round" for Cyrillic and could, instead be an Edward VII cypher. Anyway, let's keep going. Antony
Also the full pic of the guy I posted has boards with an insignia on it very similar to the one that started this discussion.
It seems you & I are taking the most interest in helping to resolve this one !
Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:12 AM
Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:37 AM
Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:08 AM
Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:28 PM
Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:51 AM
Posted 10 March 2011 - 11:32 AM
Posted 10 March 2011 - 02:12 PM
............. Perhaps someone with an interest in period ladies dresses could give some kind of date and regional source for the fashion... just thinking out loud so probably not much help, but it would be nice to have something positive.
Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:05 PM
Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:49 PM
Posted 10 March 2011 - 07:01 PM
Posted 10 March 2011 - 07:42 PM
Posted 10 March 2011 - 09:34 PM
With great respect, there's been more than "speculation" about the shape of the Crown. There have been intelligent and reasoned efforts to present a forensic interpretation of that which we're all looking at but which only some of us may be seeing. Furthermore, we have already moved beyond Army and have considered the police. It is only common sense that, if we identify the collar badges, we may identify the service. We have now also moved on to the woman's dress and to the shoulder boards themselves - all the time keeping that medal ribbon in the back of our minds. I have considered posting about the moustache but will hold that until I receive further advice about that on which we should focus next. This post may sound rather more abrupt than my usual style but I've put a great deal of thought into this and only post what I feel might help others to think laterally or vertically - or just think - for the benefit of the OP. Cheers, Antony
No unit in the British Army has ever worn shoulder boards of the type, style, dimension, shape, configuration, embellishment and appearance as that shown in the photo. Posters can speculate endlessly about the shape of the crown, but in the final analysis all such speculation is rendered nugatory by the simple fact of the shoulder boards. It would perhaps be useful to move beyond the narrow and almost obsessive focus on the collar badges.
Posted 10 March 2011 - 11:03 PM
Actually there were several different patterns of shoulder boards and straps kicking about at the time this photo was taken. Some were rigid and stiffened with buckram. Have a look at this post early shoulder straps It seems that several patterns were tried with early SD. I would not rule out these continental style shoulder boards, note that the examples I show in my linked post have the German style loop fastening seen on our mystery man! They also have a decidedly Teutonic shape with pointed ends. My examples are pointed but it would appear our man's boards are radiused at the button end in more usual British style.
Note also in my link the large 7th Hussars yellow embroidered shoulder title, which allegedly doesn't exist. These shoulder straps came from the Hobson's factory in Tooley Street, London when it closed down. I've had them since they first appeared on the market in the 80s. Some of the patterns at that 1900-1905 period are a bit murky. Personally I wouldn't rule anything out. Nor would I rule out the unofficial use of cap badges as collar badges, there are many examples of this in different units.
Certainly looks like a QSA ribbon to me. And just out of interest, and through the wonders of Photoshop, a manipulated view of the 13th Hussars collar badge in roughly the same orientation. Unfortunately there is too much 'noise' on the original image to give an id of our man's collar badges, but I have to say I though 13th Hussars seemed possible to me too. Certainly the cap badge illustrated, the 'Z' badge, could easily have found use in such a way.
Screen shot 2011-03-10 at 18.15.39.jpg 46.77KB 3 downloads
Any chance of a larger scan? 600 dpi or more?
Posted 11 March 2011 - 08:52 AM
Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:06 AM
Good one, but the collar and the tunic are different colours - which would appear to rule it out. Cheers, Antony
The South Africa was just a thought
Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:09 PM
Well for what its worth I reckon its a British (and I include Commonwealth and colonies etc.) uniform of some description, whether it be Army, Police or otherwise.
Its a Kings Crown.