20 replies to this topic

[westkent78]

I'm researching a merchant seaman who died on 19/09/1918 while onboard S.S.Barrister.

So far I've found mention of only one S.S.Barrister: Thos. & Jas. Harrison Line ex- Saint Hugo, 1916 4,952 tons.  1918 taken over with Rankin, Gilmour fleet renamed Barrister, 1918 torpedoed and sunk off Isle of Man; loss of 30 lives.

Does anyone have information on the sinking of this "Barrister", and was it the one my man was on?

Thanks,


Matthew

[museumtom]

Picture of the Ship here;
http://members.lycos.co.uk/irishwrecks/det...6-ImagePage.htm

Want to dive on it?
go here then;
http://members.lycos.co.uk/irishwrecks/det...arrister116.htm

Contact the guy who posted on this forum.his father was killen on it and he should have more data for you.on;
http://www.ukdiving.co.uk/ukdiving/wreckfo...ssages/929.html

I hope this helps.
regards.
Tom.

[Arthur]

Matthew,

Re: S.S.Barrister: Thos. & Jas. Harrison Line ex- Saint Hugo, 1916 4,952 tons.

British Merchant Ships sunk by U-boats in the 1914-18 War by A. J. Tennent:

19/09/1918 Torpedoed and sunk in the Irish Sea 9 miles W.1/2N. from Chicken Rock Lighthouse, S.W. of the Isle of Man by the German submarine UB-64 whilst on a voyage from Glasgow and Liverpool to West Indies with general cargo and mails. 30 lost.

Regards
Arthur

[westkent78]

Tom,

Thanks for the information. Looks like there were at least two other "Barrister" wrecks, one in WW1 and the one in WW2 that you gave diving instructions for.

Arthur,

Looks like you've confirmed my own research. Thanks for doing the look-up.

Matthew

[historydavid]

The Barrister, which was defensively armed, was managed by the Charente Steamship Co Ltd for Harrisons

Best wishes
David

[taj]

Hi Matthew

Ive just found this now . My GT Uncle was also on this boat ( Thomas Jones ) & I was wondering do you have the links that were originally posted on here as they dont open ? Do you have any photos or info that you can help me with my research ? Thanks Andrew

westkent78, on 29 June 2004 - 04:53 PM, said:

I'm researching a merchant seaman who died on 19/09/1918 while onboard S.S.Barrister.

So far I've found mention of only one S.S.Barrister: Thos. & Jas. Harrison Line ex- Saint Hugo, 1916 4,952 tons.  1918 taken over with Rankin, Gilmour fleet renamed Barrister, 1918 torpedoed and sunk off Isle of Man; loss of 30 lives.

Does anyone have information on the sinking of this "Barrister", and was it the one my man was on?

Thanks,


Matthew

[Silent Warrior]

Here are 29 of the Barrister's crew that were lost, however I think there were thirty in total; the last two were gunners. There was another Barrister sunk in 1917 but no crewe were lost
ALI AMAN Sailor MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) 19.9.18
BUCKLEY T. 2nd Steward MM SS Barrister 19.9.18
BROWN, Thomas Donkeyman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
BRYCE, D. Telegraphist MM SS Barrister 19.9.18
CAMP, Peter Boatswain (Bosun) MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
CHEETHAM, William Wireless Operator MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
COOK, John George lst Engineer MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
COSSU, A. Boatswain (Bosun) MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
DEVOY, Alexander Able Seaman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
GILBERT, P. Sailor MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
GREENFIELD, Reginald Victor Cabin Boy MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
HAFFEY, William John Sailor MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
HALSALL, Thomas Edward 3rd Engineer MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
HAZELDENE, W. Fireman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
HENDERSON, John Able Seaman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
JONES, Thomas Fireman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
KING, Charles Leo 2nd Cook MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
LARSEN, W. Lamps MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
LEITCH, Campbell Petrie Fireman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
McGOLDRICK, Jas Patrick Fireman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
MORGAN, Peter Francis 1st Mate MM SS Barrister 19.9.18
PARKER, Edward Chief Steward MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
REVILL, William Fireman MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
ROGERS, William John Brenton Carpenter MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
VEALL, Archibald Purser MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
VOS, H. C. Ship’s Cook MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
YOUNG, Richard Greaser MM SS Barrister (Liverpool) drowned 19.9.18
THORNLEY, William B, Signalman, RNVR, Bristol Z 5684, Barrister, steamship, 19 September 1918
TROTMAN, Arthur, Leading Seaman, RNVR, Sussex-3/325, Barrister, steamship, 19 September 1918

The BARRISTER (Official No. 137498) was a steel-hulled 4,952-ton steam cargo ship completed as Yard No.682 by Russell & Co., Port Glasgow in April 1916; she was launched as the SAINT HUGO for British & Foreign SS. Co., Ltd., Liverpool and Rankin, Gilmour & Co., Ltd. were the managers.
In 1917 she was renamed BARRISTER by Charente SS. Co., Ltd., Liverpool
and T. & J. Harrison were the managers
Torpedoed and sunk by UB 64, on 19 September 1918, 9 miles W ½ N of Chicken Rock, while on a voyahe from Glasgow & Liverpool to West Indies with general cargo & mails


Cheers Ron

[LoganNZ]

Hello all.

I discovered this link by absolute chance, & I'm very grateful for it, because it's solved a 100yr old family mystery: my Great Grandfather was aboard the Barrister - Alexander Devoy.

I saw on another link, that someone had files/PDF's of the U-boats' sinking reports (or whatever they are called). I've now registered so I can try and learn more, but cannot find that link for the life of me. Can anyone help with that? Did anyone ever find a picture of the vessel? (The old link given seems dead, and I've scoured the internet but can't come up with anything).

Any other info on the wreck, or any historical minutiae would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to put together some info for my extended family - this has been a huge breakthrough.

Thanks so much.
Logan
New Zealand

[Michael Lowrey]

Logan,

Sure, I can get you a scan of UB 64's Kriegstagebuch (KTB, literally, war diary) describing the sinking of Barrister.

Best wishes,
Michael

[LoganNZ]

WOW, Michael that would be incredible - not just for me, but especially for my Dad & Uncle. Their father, my Grandad, was just four when his father went down on the Barrister.

He emigrated to New Zealand in his teens (some time in the 1920's), and went on to fight in the Pacific in WW2. (I'm researching that now too).

He maintained that his Dad was in the merchant marine and was sunk by a U-Boat, but this was largely written off for the last 50-odd years as the childhood fantasy of a boy who never knew his own Dad, after a visiting relative debunked Grandad's story in the 60's. Grandad died in the 80's and the mystery sort of petered out after that.

My Dad & Uncle were astounded when I found this thread - and I think kind of pleased that they at last knew their own Dad had been telling the truth all that time.

How can you get me the KTB? Post it here? Or do you need an email address?

With Deep Gratitude!
Logan

Michael Lowrey, on 24 April 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Logan,

Sure, I can get you a scan of UB 64's Kriegstagebuch (KTB, literally, war diary) describing the sinking of Barrister.

Best wishes,
Michael

[ph0ebus]

Logan,

The photo below is linked from uboat.net, and is a photo of UB-64, the very u-boat that sank the Barrister:



-Daniel

[LoganNZ]

Incredible. Thanks so much Daniel. Cannot believe I'm finding such detail, after all these years.

(Although the pic only appeared when I hit "reply" - in your original message it appears as a broken link - have I got something wrong with my settings?).

ANZAC Day here tomorrow - a National Holiday and very significant day here in NZ. This year I'll be taking my son (7) and daughter (5) to the Dawn Service for their very first time, at the stunning Auckland War Memorial Museum. There will be tens of thousands there. I solemnly honour this day of remembrance every single year, but this year is going to be even more meaningful, thanks to gaining all this knowledge about my ancestor, in just the last week.

Again, many thanks.
Logan

ph0ebus, on 24 April 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Logan,

The photo below is linked from uboat.net, and is a photo of UB-64, the very u-boat that sank the Barrister:



-Daniel

[ph0ebus]

LoganNZ, on 24 April 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Incredible. Thanks so much Daniel. Cannot believe I'm finding such detail, after all these years.

(Although the pic only appeared when I hit "reply" - in your original message it appears as a broken link - have I got something wrong with my settings?).

ANZAC Day here tomorrow - a National Holiday and very significant day here in NZ. This year I'll be taking my son (7) and daughter (5) to the Dawn Service for their very first time, at the stunning Auckland War Memorial Museum. There will be tens of thousands there. I solemnly honour this day of remembrance every single year, but this year is going to be even more meaningful, thanks to gaining all this knowledge about my ancestor, in just the last week.

Again, many thanks.
Logan

I am also searching for a photo of her Captain, Ernst Krieger, for you but so far, no luck.

The link thing is odd...the photo is displaying for me just fine...the quirks of technology, I guess.  

Another angle to perhaps consider is perusing the German language newspapers of the day and scanning them for mention of the loss of the Barrister.  Usually thumbing through copies between the sinking date and perhaps a week or so later will probably turn something up.  I am researching a passenger ship torpedoed the year before Barrister and I was able to get quite a bit of information that way.  The German papers may even have a photo of Krieger...they very often did have photos of successful Captains, which he certainly was.

For starters, have a look here:

Austrian Newspapers Online

Happy Hunting!

Daniel

[Michael Lowrey]

Logan,

I'll e-mail it to you after I scan it in over the weekend. Should be one or pages plus possibly a torpedo attack summary. Already have the list of ships sunk for that patrol if you want that.

Aside: the detail on a sinking in a KTB various over time and between flotillas during WWI.

The photo of UB 64 is well known. Note the large (105mm/45 caliber) gun, which was a refit item for this boat.

Best wishes,
Michael

[LoganNZ]

Michael Lowrey, on 24 April 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Logan,

I'll e-mail it to you after I scan it in over the weekend. Should be one or pages plus possibly a torpedo attack summary. Already have the list of ships sunk for that patrol if you want that.

That would be excellent - definitely interested in the list of ships sunk also.

Thanks Michael.
Logan
New Zealand

[LoganNZ]

ph0ebus, on 24 April 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

I am also searching for a photo of her Captain, Ernst Krieger, for you but so far, no luck.

The link thing is odd...the photo is displaying for me just fine...the quirks of technology, I guess.  

For starters, have a look here:

Austrian Newspapers Online

What a brilliant resource - much appreciated. have you found any particular publication to have better "coverage" of sinkings/U-boat activity? There's so many there!

Link/pic is displaying just fine now - not sure what the issue was when I first opened it.

Thanks for everything.
Logan

[Rainovian]

According to the book  "Harrisons of Liverpool. A  Chronicle of Ships & Men  1830 - 2002"  29 were lost and among the few survivors was  second officer James Stocks who became Marine Superintendent from 1955 - 1962.

[LoganNZ]

Rainovian, on 25 April 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

According to the book  "Harrisons of Liverpool. A  Chronicle of Ships & Men  1830 - 2002"  29 were lost and among the few survivors was  second officer James Stocks who became Marine Superintendent from 1955 - 1962.

I've been trying to find that book here in New Zealand but it seems not to exist here. Does it say how big the ships compliment was, and how many actually survived?

[ph0ebus]

LoganNZ, on 25 April 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

What a brilliant resource - much appreciated. have you found any particular publication to have better "coverage" of sinkings/U-boat activity? There's so many there!

Link/pic is displaying just fine now - not sure what the issue was when I first opened it.

Thanks for everything.
Logan

I'll have a look at the u-boat articles I pulled for the u-boat attack I am researching and see which one comes up tops.

-Daniel

EDIT: I got some very good articles in Pester Lloyd, Die Neue Zeitung, Reichspost, Uhr 8 Blatt and Volksblatt für Stadt und Land.

[taj]

HI Logan & ph0ebus

Would you be be able to post any info you have of this incident 19.9.18 for me please . I have a picture of the Barrister . Im pretty sure it is it . My GT Uncle was also on this boat ( Thomas Jones ) . Have you searched the merchant records for his file . I found a picture of my Gt Uncle on there as well.

Thanks Taj