1010 replies to this topic

[seany]

Albatross farm ? possibly a little nearer the river they must have crossed?

SFayers, on 04 September 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

Hi seany,

Not Duck Lodge (too close to Passchendaele), but you're on the right lines using avian terminology!

You're actually much closer with Maison du Hibou - it was fire from Maison du Hibou and other local strong points (particularly Bulow Farm) that caused the 11th Manchesters to abandon this place on the 16th August.

Cheers

Steve

[SFayers]

seany, on 04 September 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

Albatross farm ? possibly a little nearer the river they must have crossed?

Still too far forward seany! You were far closer with Maison du Hibou, which is about 500 yards distant in fact. If I was to walk from this place, about the same distance, down the road in the direction of Zonnebeke I'd find someone brooding (and I don't mean a hen!).

As I think everyone can probably do without any more of my foul-related references, hopefully this rooster will soon come back to his little home!

[CROONAERT]

11th Mancs on 16th August 1917... would that be the Cockcroft then? (and another avian reference in the war diary relates to a Lt.Falconer on this day too!)



dave

[SFayers]

CROONAERT, on 04 September 2011 - 09:32 PM, said:

11th Mancs on 16th August 1917... would that be the Cockcroft then? (and another avian reference in the war diary relates to a Lt.Falconer on this day too!)



dave

Well done Dave,

The Cockcroft it is! The 11th Manchesters found The Cockcroft un-occupied on the 16th August but came under fire in front from Bulow Farm and in enfilade from Maison du Hibou to their right, which hadn't been cleared. On the 19th August The Cockcroft and other local strongpoints north of St Julien were taken in a very successful attack by the 1/8th Worcesters supported by tanks of 19 and 20 Companies, G Battalion, 1 Tank Brigade, XVIII Corps.

Later in the autumn, as the front slowly went forward, heavy artillery units set-up position along the Langemarck - Zonnebeke road. William Kingham was a member of 309 Siege Battery (Honourable Artillery Company) RGA, and went on to author "The London Gunners" - a well written, vivid account of his battery in France and Flanders during 1917 and 1918. During November and December 1917 309 Siege Battery was in position between The Cockcroft and the Leekerboterbekke near Haanixbeek Farm. From mid-November 1917 until early 1918 5 Siege Battery RGA (my grandfather's unit) was located at The Cockcroft; and during December, when the men of 309 Siege Battery went back for rest, one section of 5 Siege Battery took over two of 309 Siege Battery's howitzers and occupied their position. (According to Kingham, after 5 Siege Battery took over the position, conditions became even more bleak due to flooding of the billets and increased shelling of the area.)

Of course, about half a kilometer down the road from The Cockcroft in the direction of Zonnebeke, near the junction where it crosses the St Julien - Poelcappelle road, stands the Canadian Memorial, commonly referred to as 'The Brooding Soldier'.


Your turn I believe........

[SFayers]

Oh, for those who may be interested, the following details the location of the places mentioned in the posts wrt The Cockcroft:

 Cockcroft.jpg   96.64K   0 downloads

All the best

Steve

[CROONAERT]

SFayers, on 05 September 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

Your turn I believe........

okey dokey then...


i'm in a(nother!) German military cemetery in France.
It contains 1966 German graves from WW1 with a further 2788 in a kameradengrab.
The VdK only took over the care of this cemetery (from the French) in 1972.
All graves within the cemetery are German and, though it is a WW1 military cemetery ... there are some German graves in there dating as far back as 1893.
There is a shooting range behind the cemetery and, half a mile to the south, a nicely preserved row of some 7 to 10 concrete bunkers of 1916/17 vintage.
The name of the nearby village/small town gave its name to an early battle of the war.


What is the name of the village?

[SFayers]

Morhange in Lorraine? (As in the Battle of Morhange-Sarrebourg.)

[CROONAERT]

That's the one!

[SFayers]

CROONAERT, on 05 September 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:

That's the one!

Blimey! I'd better get my thinking cap on again then.............

[SFayers]

Okay, try this one:

Numerous men from East Anglia (and also from elsewhere in the UK) who were killed in the same notorious action (though traditionally only notorious for some) are buried, or are at least believed to be buried here. Of the 70-odd Suffolks who fell on this day only two have a marked grave in the cemetery where I'm standing.

Where am I?

[Michelle Young]

I'm thinking maybe around Le Cateau?
Michelle

[SFayers]

A good guess Michelle,

That's an equally tragic but proud name (if not more so) in the history of the Suffolk Regiment during the First World War - if I recall correctly the 2nd Suffolks suffered over 700 casualties after nine hours of fighting at Le Cateau; but I'm afraid that's not where I am in this instance!

The Suffolk men that are buried in the cemetery where I'm standing were not regular soldiers.

[SFayers]

Actually, I will say that a loss suffered by the 2nd Suffolks at Le Cateau was also shared by the Suffolk battalion in the action refered to here.

[seany]

So they must be territorials and that must be around Neuve Chapelle? I guess Farm Cemetery.

SFayers, on 05 September 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

Actually, I will say that a loss suffered by the 2nd Suffolks at Le Cateau was also shared by the Suffolk battalion in the action refered to here.

[Michelle Young]

would you be stood in Azmak Cemetery, Suvla?

Michelle

[SFayers]

seany - you were correct with territorials, but the wrong battalion I'm afraid!

Michelle has hit the proverbial nail on the head with Azmak Cemetery!

The notorious action I'm referring to is the ill-fated attack by 163rd Brigade, 54th Division on the Anafarta Plain at Suvla, Gallipoli on the 12th August 1915. This involved 1/5th Suffolks, 1/8th Hants, 1/5th Norfolks and in support the 1/4th Norfolks; and is certainly most famous for the 'disappearance' of the Sandringham Company of the 1/5th Norfolk Regiment. (Like the 2nd Suffolks at Le Cateau, the 1/5th Suffolks [and the 1/5th Norfolks for that matter] also lost their commanding officer during this action.)

My nan's cousin Stanley Scarff was one of the 1/5th Suffolks who died this day, and is commemorated with many of his comrades on the Helles Memorial. I like to think that Stanley was among those of the fallen who were recovered in 1919 and eventually layed to rest in Azmak Cemetery. Hopefully some day I can get over there and say hello.

Well done Michelle - over to you!

[SFayers]

 Azmak.jpg   56.16K   0 downloads
Azmak Cemetery, Suvla; photo very kindly provided by forum member gem22.

[Michelle Young]

Thanks Steve, I'll put my mind to it today and post later.

Michelle

[Michelle Young]

I am standing at what was once the end of a tramway.The place did not exist until May 1915, and the London Underground springs to mind.

Michelle

[SFayers]

Are we talking 'tramway' in the conventional sense? I think I might need a further clue!

[SFayers]

Oh, one guess though - St Vaast Post Military Cemetery near Richebourg-L'Avoue? There was a trench tramway terminus here and the cemetery was begun during May 1915.............

[Michelle Young]

Bingo! St Vaast Post it is- the London Underground connection being that Charles Holden designed the cemetery and he designed many stations and the headquarters at 55, Broadway. Last time I visited (in May) there was a lot of new build around so the cemetery will very soon have new houses opposite.
Michelle

[SFayers]

I wouldn't have got the London Underground connection for that one - good call Michelle!

I'll have to think of a new one now.......

[Michelle Young]

http://www.charlesholden.com/

(enter gallery)

Holdens designs include Polygon Wood, Messines,Passchendaele New Britsh Cemetery, Windy Corner and St Vaast Post.His work is very distinctive, and some of my favourite designs on the Western Front

Michelle

[SFayers]

Thanks for the link Michelle.

Here's another little teaser:

At the place I'm standing, on one particular day, many East Anglian men gave their lives in it's capture and defence; they could do no more. Of the 50 Suffolk men killed, sadly, not one of them has a marked grave. On the same day, and not far away, heavier casualties were suffered by others........

"When you see millions of the mouthless dead
Across your dreams in pale battalions go,
Say not soft things as other men have said,
That you'll remember. For you need not so."

(No, I'm not in Gallipoli this time!)