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HMS Vivid and Vivid I - III


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#1 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:41 AM

This question is in relation to Frederick George Marchant, b St Pancras 1874 and who was in the RNASBR in 1917/18. (M27833), where in other topic areas I have been given considerable help.


From reading of previous posts, I gather the HMS Vivid, was the name of the naval barracks at Plymouth, not a ship. Vivid I, II and III, they talk about it as 'an accounting base or section'. In the World Naval Ships Forum one posting says:


"In WW1, specifically 1914 - 1915, Vivid II was an 'Accounting Base' at Devonport. There were several Vivids at the time, Vivid III was an 'Accounting Section' also at Devonport Sep 1917 - ~ Dec 1918, Vivid IV was an 'Accounting Base' at Falmouth around that time and Vivid V was another 'Accounting Base' at Milford Haven c.1919".


And another

"An accounting base was set up to deal with a set of circumstances : whilst Warlow doesn't specify why Vivid II and Vivid III were set up, it could well have been, especially for Vivid III, that the office was set up to look after the escorts' pay accounts, service documentation and victualling and stores accounts following the introduction of convoys in 1917.

A similar organisation would appear to have been set up as Vivid IV, at Falmouth. So accounting bases were fixed for as long as they were required e.g. VICTORY IV, based in HMS VICTORY, then the RN Barracks, was in existence from 1952-1961, to look after the Portsmouth Squadron and other ships, such as those in refit, at Portsmouth.

Those accounting bases which weren't fixed were the depot ships which looked after the submarines, destroyers and minesweepers etc. who would follow their flocks around to where ever they were required."


As a freshie to the navy, what sort of role would this have entailed? He was a St John's man who on his uniform wore collar badges of the Welsh Brigade. If he was a base-man ( a painter/decorator by trade) would that have made him an orderly or the like? He had the rank of S.R.A. I am struggling to work out what an 'accounting base' is and hoping some one can put it in layman's terms.


Thanks
Michael

#2 David Underdown

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 02:07 PM

Basically just a nominal ship to which he was assigned for the purposes of his pay and so on. Larger ships were accounting units in their own right, smaller vessels (destroyers, subs and smaller) had a depot ship which is shown in their records as their accounting base, and similarly for those in land based roles they would be grouped under a ship name

#3 Egypt

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 07:57 PM

Members of the Royal Navy Auxiliary Sick Berth Reserve were recruited from the St John's Ambulance Brigade and the St Andrew's Ambulance Association Corps. for service in the Royal Navy in time of war and on board ship they did pretty much what a female nurse would have done in hospital on land, looking after sick and injured sailors and assisting ship's doctors.

SBA = Sick Berth Attendant.

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#4 ARABIS

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:05 PM

Members of the Royal Navy Auxiliary Sick Berth Reserve were recruited from the St John's Ambulance Brigade and the St Andrew's Ambulance Association Corps. for service in the Royal Navy in time of war and on board ship they did pretty much what a female nurse would have done in hospital on land, looking after sick and injured sailors and assisting ship's doctors.

SBA = Sick Berth Attendant.


He was an SRA, Senior Reserve Attendant.

David.

#5 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:59 AM

[quote name='Egypt' timestamp='1304711824' post='1588060']
Members of the Royal Navy Auxiliary Sick Berth Reserve were recruited from the St John's Ambulance Brigade and the St Andrew's Ambulance Association Corps. for service in the Royal Navy in time of war and on board ship they did pretty much what a female nurse would have done in hospital on land, looking after sick and injured sailors and assisting ship's doctors.

SBA = Sick Berth Attendant.

Thanks Egypt, pretty easy to understand. How would we know if he was a volunteer in entering or he was 'requistioned'? Seems he first starts on 17 Sept 1917 having been born in 15 Sept 1873. Again thanks.

#6 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 02:02 AM

Basically just a nominal ship to which he was assigned for the purposes of his pay and so on. Larger ships were accounting units in their own right, smaller vessels (destroyers, subs and smaller) had a depot ship which is shown in their records as their accounting base, and similarly for those in land based roles they would be grouped under a ship name



Thanks David, could we infer from his being on Victory III that he was working in the naval hospital at Plymouth?

#7 Egypt

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:33 AM

Thanks David, could we infer from his being on Victory III that he was working in the naval hospital at Plymouth?


If it was Victory III then he was based at Portsmouth. if it was Vivid III then he was based in Plymouth.

#8 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:46 PM

If it was Victory III then he was based at Portsmouth. if it was Vivid III then he was based in Plymouth.


Thanks, my error there.

#9 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:51 PM

Thanks, my error there.


Thanks Arabis, what you wirte makes it pretty easy to understand what he did there. How would we know if he was a volunteer in entering or he was 'requistioned, or wouldn't we'? Seems he first starts on 17 Sept 1917 having been born in 15 Sept 1873. Given we are only given Vivid III as his ship, would this tell us he was on land most, if not all the time? Again thanks.

#10 Egypt

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:19 PM

You man had enrolled in the RNASBR sometime prior to the outbreak of the Great War. In fact when the war actually began he was already over 40 and therefore beyond the age limit for mobilization (note only property is requisitioned). This changed in 1916 when the Military Service Act was introduced. That made all abled bodied men up to the age of 45 liable to conscription. Seems probable therefore that Mr Marchant was able to avoid call up into the army by virtue of his red cross experience and earlier enlistment into the Naval Aux. Sick Berth Reserve.

#11 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:47 AM

You man had enrolled in the RNASBR sometime prior to the outbreak of the Great War. In fact when the war actually began he was already over 40 and therefore beyond the age limit for mobilization (note only property is requisitioned). This changed in 1916 when the Military Service Act was introduced. That made all abled bodied men up to the age of 45 liable to conscription. Seems probable therefore that Mr Marchant was able to avoid call up into the army by virtue of his red cross experience and earlier enlistment into the Naval Aux. Sick Berth Reserve.


HI Egypt thanks for the correction of the term, I will use it in future. How did you work out that he was enrolled in the RNASBR before the Great War? Did I miss something? His papers have him date and period of engagement as 14 Sept 1917 and he goes from a JRA to a SRA six months after that - my reading says that that was usual. It would appear he was prior in the St John Ambulance Brigade and I am going to investigate how to track down any record for the time he joined. Why he was wearing those Welsh Brigade collar badges is still mystifying. Again thanks for the continued help,

#12 Darren Brown.

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 02:06 AM

After viewing many ratings papers this is the theme for Number Division's 1 & 2. Does say Vivid 3, 4, & 5 follow any trend like this?


Chatham Ratings
Pembroke 1= Able Seaman, Signalman & Telegraphists.
Pembroke 2=Stoker & ERA's

Portsmouth Ratings.
Victory 1= Able Seaman, Signalman & Telegraphists.
Victory 2=Stoker & ERA's

Devonport Ratings.
Vivid 1 1= Able Seaman, Signalman & Telegraphists.
Vivid 2=Stoker & ERA's

#13 Egypt

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 07:56 AM

Sorry Michael, based on what you now tell me from information on his Service Docs, it's highly unlikely that he had served any time in the RNASBR prior to the war (as he wouldn't then have ben recalled as a JRA) - I wrongly jumped to conclusions based on insufficient knowledge - but if you don't mind, perhaps you might post a scan of his Service Certificate here in this thread, as I'm sure that it would be interesting for some of us to see.
Mr Marchant was fortunate then to be enlisted into the navy in 1916 (when conscription came in). Many who expressed a preference for the navy at that time were disappointed and ended up in the army instead.
I guess it helped a lot that he had some prior medical experience from his St. John's Ambulance Brigade service (as mentioned earlier, there was a special scheme existing between St. John's and the navy for recruitment into the RNASBR).
He may have been a volunteer into the RNASBR, but if he hadn't chosen to take that particular route, then he would still nevertheless have been subject to compulsory conscription into the armed forces.

Perhaps the regimental collar tabs on his St. John's uniform could have come from earlier army or TA service prior to the war? I've seen photos of other men at the time in civilian uniformed services who also chose to show their association with there former unit by wearing their old collar badges unofficially on their civilian uniforms (these were proud patriotic times).

Good luck with your quest.
mb

#14 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:46 AM

After viewing many ratings papers this is the theme for Number Division's 1 & 2. Does say Vivid 3, 4, & 5 follow any trend like this?


Chatham Ratings
Pembroke 1= Able Seaman, Signalman & Telegraphists.
Pembroke 2=Stoker & ERA's

Portsmouth Ratings.
Victory 1= Able Seaman, Signalman & Telegraphists.
Victory 2=Stoker & ERA's

Devonport Ratings.
Vivid 1 1= Able Seaman, Signalman & Telegraphists.
Vivid 2=Stoker & ERA's



Thanks Darren. My man was from Plymouth and it seems he worked in a sick berth capacity assisting the doctors in their work, thanks for taking the time, rgds.

#15 ARABIS

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:23 PM

Sorry Michael, based on what you now tell me from information on his Service Docs, it's highly unlikely that he had served any time in the RNASBR prior to the war (as he wouldn't then have ben recalled as a JRA) - I wrongly jumped to conclusions based on insufficient knowledge - but if you don't mind, perhaps you might post a scan of his Service Certificate here in this thread, as I'm sure that it would be interesting for some of us to see.
Mr Marchant was fortunate then to be enlisted into the navy in 1916 (when conscription came in). Many who expressed a preference for the navy at that time were disappointed and ended up in the army instead.
I guess it helped a lot that he had some prior medical experience from his St. John's Ambulance Brigade service (as mentioned earlier, there was a special scheme existing between St. John's and the navy for recruitment into the RNASBR).
He may have been a volunteer into the RNASBR, but if he hadn't chosen to take that particular route, then he would still nevertheless have been subject to compulsory conscription into the armed forces.

Perhaps the regimental collar tabs on his St. John's uniform could have come from earlier army or TA service prior to the war? I've seen photos of other men at the time in civilian uniformed services who also chose to show their association with there former unit by wearing their old collar badges unofficially on their civilian uniforms (these were proud patriotic times).

Good luck with your quest.
mb


There is another thread on this in SOLDIERS, titled In Welsh Brigade and a Petty Officer. Parts of the service record have been posted there.

Regards,
David.

#16 ARABIS

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:28 PM

Thanks Arabis, what you wirte makes it pretty easy to understand what he did there. How would we know if he was a volunteer in entering or he was 'requistioned, or wouldn't we'? Seems he first starts on 17 Sept 1917 having been born in 15 Sept 1873. Given we are only given Vivid III as his ship, would this tell us he was on land most, if not all the time? Again thanks.


Please see post #25 in your other thread in SOLDIERS, entitled In Welsh Brigade and a Petty Officer, for the answer to your last sentence.

Regards,
David.

#17 Michael O'Donnell

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:54 AM

Please see post #25 in your other thread in SOLDIERS, entitled In Welsh Brigade and a Petty Officer, for the answer to your last sentence.

Regards,
David.


Thanks David. I 've been running two sets of questions in two forums and I missed the comment. The forum has certainly been extremely helpful in both info and where to go next. Much appreciated.