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Verlustlisten ONLINE 1914 complete and 1915 nearly so


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#26 roel22

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 06:14 AM

Bob, are you 100% sure the Polish link brought you to RegWorks?
I must say I also had second thoughts when I had to download something I'd never heard of to open the Verlustliste, but I haven't had any problems since I decided to take my chance...

Roel

#27 bob lembke

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:40 PM

Bob, are you 100% sure the Polish link brought you to RegWorks?
I must say I also had second thoughts when I had to download something I'd never heard of to open the Verlustliste, but I haven't had any problems since I decided to take my chance...

Roel


Not at all. I can't clearly remember the exact course of events. I tried to open one of the Verlustliste, and it would not open, due to the unusual (to me) file format, which my well-softwared computer could not deal with. As I remember it, then RegList popped up and as I best remember "offered" to open the file. Although I am generally very suspicious and cautious, I did allow my computer and load it, although I quickly went to my usual paranoid mode and never ran the package. I then decided to research what I had done, and Googling on RegWork quickly led me to complaint fora and lots of complaints, one or two elaborate positive testimonials with users saying how it had changed their entire lives and saved their marriages, which seemed much too perfect to believe, and a letter from a Microsoft employee denying that it was approved by Microsoft. (The opening pop-up had a big Microsoft logo and a statement that RegWork was some sort of "Gold-Plated Wonder Partner of the Microsoft Corporation.), with about five other logos of wonderfulness.

But why does this thing pop up two seconds after I attempted to open this file? I started working for my university as a professional programmer 50 years ago, and was deeply involved with computers ever since, but for about 25 years I have not been on the leading edge. But I am generally quite knowledgable about computers, am on my computer say 11 hours a day, and I know that there are a fantastic number of pop-ups, spy cookies, mal-ware, spy-ware, pornographic graffiti, etc. attached to popular sites by third parties with all sorts of agendas. I have read detailed reports of tests where an expert sets up an absolutely "clean", unused computer, goes to one popular site (several mentioned, like a popular on-line dictionary), and after entering the site once the computer was carefully studied, and the computer had something like 320 pieces of software downloaded from the one visit. Why would registry repairing software offer to convert file formats, something that it does not seem to have anything to do with? Probably the owners of RegWork (seemingly in Macaou, China) hired some hackers to insert their pop-ups in some innocent web-sites.

I just wanted to alert people to be careful. I still not have taken the time to get rid of it, but I have scanned the package with my ace Kaspersky software and it does not contain a recognizable virus. And I will get rid of it before I type in any credit card info or anything of the sort. (Some mal-ware sits on your computer and "watches" what you type and streams it back to their computer; if you buy a book on Amazon you might also buy a BMW in the Czech Republic.)

Bob

#28 roel22

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:47 PM

Perhaps RegWorks was already on your harddisk, silently waiting for certain file formats?

Roel

#29 ph0ebus

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 12:39 PM

Perhaps RegWorks was already on your harddisk, silently waiting for certain file formats?

Roel

A Great war variant on the 'Run Silent, Run Deep' method of Malware. :)

Bob, sorry to hear about the troubles you are having and appreciate the word of caution.

-Daniel

#30 fritz

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 05:53 PM

This Polish guys are very busy to complete their work. I am still waiting for

Ausgabe 2083 vom 3.9.1918 Seite 26008

to regard the official notice of the death of my Great-uncle Karl.

Fritz

#31 roel22

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 07:24 PM

I'm also waiting (23-9-1918)
An employee of the library is kind enough to notify me when new pages are published.
I'll let you know when I hear from him again.

Roel

#32 Ken S.

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:43 PM

Earlier when I was searching the lists it was taking a long time to load. Hate to complain about this considering how great it is to now have access to these lists, but when it takes so long it gets very frustrating.

Anyway I've gone though about a dozen for May--the earliest when I started--and have come across two men with my grandfather's name. One definitely not him, the other from the same county where he resided after the war. It's not an overly common name I think (if the volksbund.de database is any indication, there are 12 listed over the two wars). Not sure where he resided before and during the war, always assumed it was where he lived after it; so who knows. Still, the search continues.

One thing that I'm doing is making notes of the names at the top of each column per page and any other things that will help speed up future research--ie. the page on which the Bavarian etc. list starts/resumes. Is any doing anything similar?

#33 roel22

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 05:33 AM

Ken, can you tell me how I can see weather listst are Prussian, Bavarian or from another state? Earlier you wrote the casualty-date is directly after the name of the soldier, but I sometimes find it hard to make sense of these numbers. Or was it not uncommon for a casualty from lets say november to show up in a Verlustlist in july?

Roel

#34 Ken S.

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:33 PM

It seems that the list for a given day in 1918 will have two Ausgabe. The first Ausgabe (of 16 pages) appear to always start with the Prussian list. On the top of subsequent pages it will read "Deutsche Verlustlisten. (Pr.XXXX)". If it's a different list then it will read "Deutsche Verlustlisten. (B.XXX)" for Bavaria, etc.

It appears that in some cases there was a considerable delay in reporting the casualty. The exact reason why I can't say.

#35 John Gilinsky

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:55 PM

Ken and others: Official published contemporary casualty lists are of great interest INTERANTIONALLY to me in trying to ascertain individuals with mental health issues or concerns and typically of course "shellshock." Delays between initial wounding and first official acknowledgement of such wound(s) and actual published official reporting of same can be due to:
a) pressures faced by intense casualty processing by the front line medical units and desires to maintain accurate medical records thus holding up deliberately information to be forwarded to the rear, "etappe" and/or home front realizing that the casualty is presumed to be dying, will die or indeed will recover etc.... and the overall uncertainty of such medical recognized statuses;
B) deliberate obfuscation and distortion in applying or misapplying medical diagnoses and differing medical personnel at different times accepting, altering or refusing such medical diagnoses thus delaying and ultimately of course also distorting the eventual published official record(s);
c) multiple medical personnel's involvements with the same casualty and the misplacement, loss or destruction of medical records which would not be of the highest priorty the closer one got to the front lines or scenes of combat;
d) the larger military medical unit(say military medical administrative organizations) that oversaw lower echelon medical field units paper trail recording to systematize and cumulate periodic reports or equivalent thus holding up the forwarding of such casulaty information;
e) sheer frailties in not filling in properly or indeed not filling in at all necessary "paper work" whether at or near the front or further back due to "war weariness", embarassment with multiple wounds fuelled or aggravated by such conditions as sexually transmitted diseases, sicknesses following up wounds compounding and obfuscating the casulaty's nature.

Hope the above helps to clarify!

John

#36 roel22

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:29 PM

Just got an update from the Polish library: the final months of 1918 will most likely be online in august.
The paper copies are (quote) "in fatal state".

Roel

#37 fritz

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:43 PM

Nice to know it will go on. Thanks for this information, Roel.

Fritz

#38 John Gilinsky

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:44 AM

An early war interesting advertisement specifically mentioning these official casualty lists is readily seen in:

"JUGEND..." online digital copies, 2nd. half of 1914, Issue Number 37, September 8, 1914, page 1149 where the Muenchen, Bavaria "Kriegs Chronik, Muenchen Neuesten Nachrichten" promised readers ready access to such information.

http://diglit.ub.uni...d868792dd15b352

Hope this continues to keep the interst flame alive.

Hans (aka John)

#39 roel22

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:59 AM

Thanks Hans, I never knew these lists were published this way.

Roel

#40 bob lembke

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 02:37 PM

THIS IS A COPY OF A POSTING I MADE ON THE OTHER THREAD WHERE I WARNED OF MY PROBLEM AND A POSSIBLE CONNECTION WITH THE ON-LINE VERLUSTENLISTE. THERE CERTAINLY NO FAULT TO BE PLACED ON THE WONDERFUL POLISH LIBRARY WHO IS MAKING THIS GREAT RESOURCE AVAILABLE TO US, AND I JOIN IN THE THANKS TO THEM. BUT THERE MAY BE SOME CONNECTION TO THIS SOURCE CREATED BY SOME OTHER PARTY.

AGAIN. MY THANKS TO THE POLISH ENTITIES MAKING THIS AVAILABLE.

Guys (and gals);

As I raised some suspicions about the Polish site for online Verlustenliste, and possible piggy-backed malware and/or viruses, I wanted to clarify matters as to what really happened.

As it turned out, my actual computer problems that I experienced were caused, not by malware or a virus, but by in intermittently failing hard-drive. I had had a new computer built for me by the "Computer-Fixer" computer clinic at Drexel University, an engineering university, one of the top "fixer clinics" in the US, according to a local competitor, and after only 7 months the hard drive started to fail, causing a puzzling series of failures that I first thought was a virus or malware attack. But my excellent Russian Kaspersky anti-virus software (itself crippled by the problem), never found a virus invasion, nor did the computer clinic. Instead it was a failing hard drive, which, after about six days of problems, Windows 7 began to warn me of. I backed up the entire computer with a fresh external hard drive (I have 11 years of thousands of pages of WW I research on the hard drive), although I now use the Mozy online automatic backup service, and then took the computer to the computer clinic. They also backed it up, replaced the hard drive (thankfully with one almost 100% larger, much too large for any use that I would have), and restored the data. The hard drive manufacturer asorbed the cost of the drive, and I got my wife's faculty discount on the work, from her position at the nearby University of Pennsylvania, so the cost was not bad at all.

There still was some connection with the online Verlustenliste, I think; of course, not the hard drive problem. The second I attempted to open the unusual format of the Verlustenliste file, that Chinese RegWork, which seems to be a 95% fraud, popped up on my computer and offered to open the unusual (to me) file format. This is especially odd since RegWork claims to be a register repair utility, not a file format utility. When I foolishly allowed it to install itself on my computer, in my eagerness to look at the casualty lists, the damned RegWorks started to take over my computer and started to ask for money. At the suggestion of the expert at the computer clinic I used the Windows 7 deinstallation utlilty to clear RegWork off my computer, although I noticed that it still has left a few orphan files on my computer, which I will hunt down and "kill" soon. I think that some hacker, at RegWorks or someone hired by them, in China or Poland or in Chicago, set this pop-up up to sell more bogus subscriptions to this RegWorks. If that bunch of junk "pops up" on your computer, do not allow it to install. There is much testimony that it does not work, and the register repair idea itself probably is bogus in practice, often damaging your computer operating system.

Bob

PS: I am going to post this at the other site.

#41 fritz

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:48 PM

This Polish guys are very busy to complete their work. I am still waiting for

Ausgabe 2083 vom 3.9.1918 Seite 26008

to regard the official notice of the death of my Great-uncle Karl.

Fritz



Here it is. The official notice of my Great-uncles death.

I am very thankful.

Fritz

#42 fritz

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:55 PM

Here it is. The official notice of my Great-uncles death.

I am very thankful.

Fritz



Hope it will succeed now in a better way.

Krentel, Karl is his name.


http://www.wbc.pozna...rom=publication

Fritz

#43 ph0ebus

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 11:59 AM

I am still such a rookie at stuff like this! How did you find him? I have to relations I am looking for in here but I am having a terrible time with it.

edit: I should probably mention who I am searching for:

Elias Weil, Gefreiter, Prussian Army, 1. Machine Gun Kompanie, Res. Infanterie Regiment 59, gestorben am 19 December 1917 near Champagne
Julius Mayer, Gefreiter, 6. Infanterie-Regiment 160, Prussian Army, gestorben am October 18, 1918 near La Wavrille

Ralph W. was kind enough to forward me the one for Moritz Strauß already.

-Daniel

#44 fritz

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:53 PM

I am still such a rookie at stuff like this! How did you find him? I have to relations I am looking for in here but I am having a terrible time with it.

edit: I should probably mention who I am searching for:

Elias Weil, Gefreiter, Prussian Army, 1. Machine Gun Kompanie, Res. Infanterie Regiment 59, gestorben am 19 December 1917 near Champagne
Julius Mayer, Gefreiter, 6. Infanterie-Regiment 160, Prussian Army, gestorben am October 18, 1918 near La Wavrille

Ralph W. was kind enough to forward me the one for Moritz Strauß already.

-Daniel



Hi Daniel,

I did know the number of Verlustliste from Krankenbuchlager by LaGeSo. Otherwise I had to prove tenthousends names or even more. For example this Verlustliste No. 2083 is consisting from 16 sides full of names in small letters. I did not tell the number of names on it but all the misery of war you can find here.

My great-uncle was killed on 15.07.1918. The record in the Verlustliste is from 03.09.1918. A period of seven weeks. Perhaps this reference may be helpful.

Kind regards

Fritz

#45 bob lembke

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 03:55 PM

Gentlemen (and women);

I still have not plunged into this resource. Can I ask a couple of simple questions, that might tell me if it is worthwhile for me to do so at this time?

My knowledge of my family in WW I Germany is rather narrow, possibly to some degree due to my father being a product of a second "love family" that my grandfather maintained at his garrison town, which led his wife to poison him with Deadly Nightshade that she put into food and home-made wine that she mailed him at his garrison post. (my wife grows Deadly Nightshade in her vegetable garden; she says she finds the red berries pretty. She knows about my grand-father's poisoning.) I do not know of any relative who died in the war, but I only know of a narrow slice of my family.

However, my father was wounded four times. One and possibly two wounds were slighter, and might even have been treated by corpsmen or a first-level aid station, one was severe enough for him to be hospitalized on and off for a year, with hospitalization at several places in France and Bavaria, and a trip to Weimar for an X-ray. Do the Verlustlisten also cover wounds? Although his worst wound spit bone fragments for over 10 years, it was formally classified as a "light wound", something that angered him 50 years later.

Are the wounded also included in this resource? All wounded?

I have also heard that the WW I medical records (as opposed to the Verlustlisten) were not in the archive in Potsdam and so survived WW II, and may (or may not) be accessable. Would I be able to find information on his hospitalizations? I know the names and approximate dates for a couple of the hospitalizations.

My father contracted malaria at Gallipoli, and his father contracted malaria in Russia, both in the last half of 1915. Might these medical events provide access to information?

Thanks for any help,

Bob Lembke

#46 ph0ebus

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 04:32 PM

I did not tell the number of names on it but all the misery of war you can find here.

My great-uncle was killed on 15.07.1918. The record in the Verlustliste is from 03.09.1918. A period of seven weeks. Perhaps this reference may be helpful.

Kind regards

Fritz
----------

Hi Fritz,

Indeed, quite helpful. We'll see if I have any luck. Of course, they be in the lists not yet posted online.

Take care,

Daniel

#47 fritz

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 04:51 PM

Are the wounded also included in this resource? All wounded?

I have also heard that the WW I medical records (as opposed to the Verlustlisten) were not in the archive in Potsdam and so survived WW II, and may (or may not) be accessable. Would I be able to find information on his hospitalizations? I know the names and approximate dates for a couple of the hospitalizations.

My father contracted malaria at Gallipoli, and his father contracted malaria in Russia, both in the last half of 1915. Might these medical events provide access to information?

Thanks for any help,

Bob Lembke
[/quote]


Hello Bob,

in the Verlustlisten you will find not only the dead. Also the wounded even the light wounded are listed. The missing and the captured soldiers.

The medical records are today in Berlin (Krankenbuchlager) and actually private researches are not welcome. You would find in this records the name of hospitals which were used and the period of medication. Also the receiving unit after recovery, mostly the Ersatz-Bataillon of his regiment. And of course the diagnos. All medications are mentioned.

Here are some links. I hope they are helpful.

http://wiki-de.genea...rster_Weltkrieg

http://www.berlin.de...ankenbuchlager/

http://www.volksbund.de/

Volksbund is entitled to get information of the Krankenbuchlager. Perhaps they would like to help you, but they are not committed.

Kind regards

Fritz

#48 ph0ebus

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 05:32 PM

Ah! So my grandfather should be in there! He contracted typhoid, was shot and gassed. Now I have even more stuff to look for. :)

Daniel

#49 bob lembke

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:51 PM

Vielen Danke, Fritz

#50 John Gilinsky

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 12:07 AM

Dear Herr Fritz und others: YES the bulk if not nearly all the military medical records (primary sources at least) survived both World Wars. HERE goes the NEWS EVERYONE has been waiting for:

THE COMPLETE set of 125 volumes,2,535 issues starts in August 1914 and ends on October 14, 1919 containing a total of 9 million entries! This complete published printed set of official Germany casualty lists is archived at:

Landesamt für Gesundheit und Soziales (LAGeSo)
Krankenbuchlager und Versorgungsarchiv
Wattstr. 11-13
13355 Berlin
Germany

website: http://www.berlin.de...ankenbuchlager/

AND for the academic historian, genealogists with money to travel to Deutschland, etc... the same archive has:

50,305 volumes in total including these Verlustlisten...for thousands of German military hospitals of WWI with scores of millions of entries.

I hope that by posting this and by generating responsible and serious inquires to these people in Berlin that they and/or others will be able to generate research/finding aids for everyone, lists of ALL the hospitals represented in their collections (including WW2 materials for overlap and historical continuity etc...)and perhaps extensive digital projects based on their massive hospital medical records collections.

Hans (aka John)
KANADA