65 replies to this topic

[brummie76]

Hello all,

This is my first post so please go easy with me!!

I am looking for some help with researching the regiment my Great Grandfather served with......

I was recently talking to my Nan and she informed me that my Great Grandfather served during WW1. She informed me that he survived the war but rarley spoke about it.

As i am a keen ww2 reenactor and am looking to reenact ww1 i would like to see if i can find out a little more.....

My nan said that all she knew about his war exploits were as follows:-

He served in a Scottish regiment,

She thinks it was a calvary regiment of some description?

He survived being torpedoed twice en route to Egypt (dont know if it was the same ship hit twice or two different ships),

He served in Egypt and having been torpedoed all the horses were lost so they used Camels instead,

He also fought in the trenches and apparently went out often to cut the enemy wire before attack on several occasions.


Any ideas what regiment anyone please??

Thanks

Paul.

[Pavster1980]

Hello Paul, welcome to the forum.

Do you have a name for you great grandfather? Names of next of kin? Where Born? Where he lived before or after the War? Any Photo's of him?


Rich

[Piorun]

Could have been the Scottish Horse by the sound of it. However, as Rich asks, it would help us help you better if you could post your ggf's name and as much other factual data as you have. Welcome to the Forum. Antony

[brummie76]

Thanks both for the replys!!

My Great Grandfathers name is :- Peter Young. Born 15 Feb 1893, St Ninians, Stirlingshire.

This is all i know.

Cheers

Paul

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Paul, and welcome to the Forum!

If you search the medal index cards, on this site:
http://www.nationala...=1&mediaarray=*
you will see that there are 57 men named Peter Young, quite a lot of whom served in Scottish regiments.

The most likely candidate is the man in the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry, a Scottish Territorial cavalry regiment which did serve in Egypt and Palestine. But if "cavalry" is a garbled family memory of "he worked with horses", there are a few men in the Royal Field Artillery, Royal Engineers and Army Service Corps.

The Fife and Forfar were dismounted to form part of 14th Battalion Black Watch (Royal Highlanders), which also fits the facts you have.

Good luck!

Ron

[Piorun]

Ron's suggestion fits the bill as regards birthplace, unit and missing horses. http://www.thaneofif...w1.html  Antony

[brummie76]

Thanks Ron and Anthony!

I was wondering about the torpedo link?? cant be many soldiers / regiments which were torpedoed TWICE!? Cant find any refrences to anything yet?

thanks again

Paul

[Tom A McCluskey]

Paul,

The 14th (Fife & Forfar Yeomanry) Battalion The Black Watch suffered more casualties at sea than any of the other Black Watch Battalions.  In 1917, men of the 14th Black Watch died at sea whilst travelling in the following Hired Transports (H. T.):

15 April 1917, H. T. Arcadian sunk by U Boat (UC74) – Remembered on the Mikra Memorial
04 May 1917, H. T. Transylvania sunk by U Boat (U63) – Remembered on the Savona Memorial
30 Dec 1917, H. T. Aragon sunk by U Boat (UC34) near the port of Alexandria – Remembered on the Chatby Memorial.

Incidentally, B Squadron of the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry were based at Dunfermline but had Drill Stations at:

a. Balfron
b. Stirling
c. Kippen
d. Kelty
e. Kinross
f. Alloa

I hope this is of use.

Aye,

Tom McC

[Ianander]

Hi Tom
                Incidentally, B Squadron of the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry were based at Dunfermline but had Drill Stations at:

  I saw this and I am wondering if they where based at Elgin Street , Dunfemline.

best regards
Ian

[brummie76]

Awesome info!!

Thanks Tom!!

As said above one of the medal records fits also!

I really would like to find some sort of service record / service number or photos etc with his dob, place of birth etc.....any ideas??

This is great! Thanks for helping guys!! I cant wait for the next post........

Cheers

Paul

[MickLeeds]

brummie76, on 20 June 2011 - 08:15 PM, said:

Awesome info!!

Thanks Tom!!

As said above one of the medal records fits also!

I really would like to find some sort of service record / service number or photos etc with his dob, place of birth etc.....any ideas??

This is great! Thanks for helping guys!! I cant wait for the next post........

Cheers

Paul

Hello,

I was checking to see if there were any service/pension records on Ancestry for a Peter Young (14th (Fife and Forfar Yeomanry) Bn.) I'm not sure if this is the medal index card your referring to ?

http://www.nationala...&resultcount=57

Peter Young, Fife & Forfar Yeomanry (3059), Royal Highlanders (345524).

If so, sorry to throw a spanner in the works but this man was killed in Egypt in 1917.

http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=648553

Mick.

[brummie76]

Thanks Mick!

I think you are right there. The record you refer to was the same as i was refering to.

Well he deffinatly survived the war so he must be from another regiment then as there are no other Peter Youngs in the Fife and Forfar.....??

Can anyone else help out ?

Thanks

Paul

[Tom A McCluskey]

Paul,

Do you have anything that has Peter Young’s regimental number on it – for instance, on the rim of a medal, a piece of equipment, documents (pay book), bible, etc.?  Knowing Peter Young’s Regimental number – without a detailed photograph – is instrumental to identifying his Regiment.

Did he serve as Peter Young?

Also, was he a tradesman?  If so, he may be attached to the Yeomanry/Cavalry/Mounted Infantry from another cap badge (Army Service Corps, Army Ordnance Corps).

I hope this is of use.

Aye,

Tom McC

[brummie76]

Hi Tom

Sorry i dont have any more info than i have posted already.......My Nan informed me he very rarley spoke of the war and it effected him badly.


I thought it was possible to input his name, date of birth and place of birth into a search box and this would narrow the search down......with the addition of being a scottish regiment, serving in Egypt, he survived the war and the torpedo i thought it may have reduced the results further??? can this not be done?

My apologies for my lack of knowlegde in this area of family research........

Thanks again for the help


Paul.

[Piorun]

Paul: the search isn't impossible - but it could be very difficult. Tens of thousands of men were transported by ship to the Med fronts. We don't know whether or not the ship(s) were torpedoed in the Atlantic or the Med. Were they sunk or just damaged? We'll have to match unknown ships to unknown regiments and then try to fit an unidentified Peter Young into the right ship - even if it exists outside your ggf's war memories. We don't know if his regiment was cavalry, yeomanry, infantry, artillery or logistics. Every regiment was backed up by hundreds of horses so, regrettably, his memory of horses does not guarantee a horsed regiment. The other huge problem is that many if not most of the soldiers' records from WW1 were severely damaged or destroyed in WW2. My suggestion is that you register with Scotland's People website and look for your ggf in the census returns to see where he was living in 1911. That could tell you where he was living in 1914. Next is to look for local newspapers in the archives. They will often list the names of local lads who had enlisted. Thus, you may get his initial regiment. Is there anyone else in your family who may have inherited his medals? Was he a member of the Masons, the KoC, whatever? There may be records there. You could contact Chris Baker on a professional basis. I believe he does searches. Sorry that's all I can suggest for now. Yours, Antony

[headgardener]

Antony's has highlighted the problems that you will have in trying to establish which one of the 57 Peter Young's your man is likely to be.

I'd take a step back at this point and say that you should first try searching the soldier's records that are available online through Ancestry.co.uk  I haven't checked them for you because I don't have access, but let's say that there are 15 Peter Young's.  If you don't find him in there, the next step would be to take note of each man's regimental numbers (even the one's who definitely aren't your g'dad, and remember that a man's regimental number changed whenever he changed regiment) and cross-check them against the 57 Peter Young's in the Medal Index cards.  You'll probably be able to rule out about 10.  then cross-check the remaining names from the MIC's with casualties on the CWGC database.  You'll probably be able to rule out another 10.

Then you can have a look at the men who are left in the MIC's (some will have been discharged early in the war, some will have middle initials, some may have been commissioned, some may have addresses on the back of the card, so you'll be able to easily bring the number down to maybe 20-30 names.  Make a note of their numbers and regiments (the regimental number will give us some idea of when that particular man enlisted, which may narrow the search down further).  It sounds laborious, but would only take a couple of hours at most, I reckon.  And people here can always give you advice on each stage of the process.  And if you still can't ID him, then take some of the steps outlined by Antony, and you'll probably be able to find him in a Voter's List, or a newspaper report and then be able to tie that to one of the men on your list.

[roughdiamond]

Paul
There is only one Peter Young between the ages of 18 and 20 living in the County of Stirling in the 1911 Census, narrowing the search criteria down, it shows an 18 year old listed in the Cambusbarron District of Stirling County.

St Ninians and Cambusbarron are neighbouring areas in Stirling, so it's very likely this will be your man, do you know the names of his parents or siblings? There's also a Peter Young who married in the Town of Falkirk in Stirling County in 1923, could that be him? what was his Wife's name?

I can get the above confirmed with additional names, if either of them are him, you can join Scotlands people and download the Census or Marriage entry, you shouldn't have to spend any more than £6 (the minimum credit) unless you want to take the research into his family further back.

On Genes Reunited, your man appears on 2 trees, their owners are Marilyn and Ray, are they known to you?

Sam

[brummie76]

Thanks Sam

Interesting information.

Peter Youngs father was James Young (07/04/1855) from Auchterarder, Perthshire and his mother was Jessie Hutton (1853??) from Stirling. His wife was Jane McDerment (02/06/1894) from Ayr. I also know her parents if it helps?

Thanks Again

Paul

[roughdiamond]

brummie76, on 22 June 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Thanks Sam

Interesting information.

Peter Youngs father was James Young (07/04/1855) from Auchterarder, Perthshire and his mother was Jessie Hutton (1853??) from Stirling. His wife was Jane McDerment (02/06/1894) from Ayr. I also know her parents if it helps?

Thanks Again

Paul

There is a match for James as a 2nd name aged 56 which seems right but nothing for Jessie as a 2nd name for some reason, on the 1901 census with Peter being 8, Jessie does come up as a 2nd name, the district they're in is St Ninians, Cambusbarron didn't exist as a District at the time.

I did find a Death for a Jessie Young with "Other Name" Hutton aged 67 in the Cambusbarron District in 1919, so definately Peter's Mother, this is really important as it'll give you an address in 1919 and if Peter is on the absent voters register, it's very likely this will be his address, and it may list his unit.

The 1923 Marriage in Falkirk isn't the right one, they did marry in 1923 though in the Blythswood District of Glasgow.

If I was you, I'd take a Scotlands People Membership and download Jessie Young's Death Cert for certain, then put a new post on asking if someone could check the absent voters roll for Peter at that address.

Sam

[brummie76]

Hi Sam

I have a feeling Jessie may have been his second wife.!?!? That may explain things.....


Paul

[roughdiamond]

brummie76, on 22 June 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

Hi Sam

I have a feeling Jessie may have been his second wife.!?!? That may explain things.....


Paul

Certainly seems to be the same person aged 50 on the 1901 census and 67 at death in 1919, it maybe her name is wrongly listed for 1911.

Sam

[Tom A McCluskey]

Paul,

There is a chance your man's name and regimental number might be on the Absent Voters List for the Ward where he or his parents live.

Aye,

Tom McC

[roughdiamond]

Tom A McCluskey, on 22 June 2011 - 11:10 PM, said:

Paul,

There is a chance your man's name and regimental number might be on the Absent Voters List for the Ward where he or his parents live.

Aye,

Tom McC

I made that point in post #19 Tom

Sam

[Tom A McCluskey]

Paul,

Reference the matter of Peter Young surviving being sank twice, en route to Egypt; the only one that comes to my mind involves H.T. Aragon.  Some of the survivors of the H.T. Aragon were picked up by H.M.S. Attack and ended up crowded about its deck.  The survivors’ relief was short-lived when H.M.S. Attack was subsequently sunk by the same U Boat.   Though, as alluded to, it is possible that Peter Young was involved in two completely separate incidents, some time apart.  However, going back to the H.T. Aragon, there is a remote possibility that the manifest of H.T. Aragon survives, or a survivor mentions Peter Young in the press.  It will be worth a look in the Stirling Library.

Plus, have a look at this thread:

http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=22951

Aye,

Tom McC

[brummie76]

Thanks Tom / Sam!

Interesting info....slowly putting things together....

Had a look at the SS Aragon but could not find what regiments were on board......looks like i am never goig to find out which regiment my Great Grandfather served with....but will keep on trying....i had a look at subscribing to Ancestry.com etc but way too expensive!! Roll on pay day so i can look for a web site much cheaper!

Thanks again for the info.

Paul