TRAJAN, on 16 August 2011 - 06:28 AM, said:
OK, here goes... It looks like a Turkish M 1890, BUT the muzzle ring is too low... So it's an 1887? (Never seen one of those but all the Turkish bayonets I have seen from 1890 to the 1930's - including my single Turkish ersatz - all have a higher muzzle ring!)
On more secure grounds now... The five pointed star on the pommel is odd to me: the three 1890's I have (one of them shortened) all have a six-pointed star. The correct form of the Turkish star is a five-pointed one, as on yours - guess somebody in Germany got it wrong with the 1890's? There should be a crescent on the other side of the pommel to match the star plus the Tughra cipher of Abdul Hamid II. Official acceptance marks.
The other pommel mark is interesting and I don't know what it is - I only have a bad stamping showing the bottom part, like an angular '8', on my two unshortened 1890's (may have been ground-off from the shortened one?).
I'll make a very wild guess that yours is a 'Mauser'-marked bayonet: one of my three is a Saeur and Sohn and it has a five-pointed star on the crossguard but my two other 1890's, both Mauser's, do not have this. Incidentally, does the blade-side face of the quillion/crossguard have a star over a heart-shape? My 1890's all have it but I don't know what it means...
Doing pretty well I think - you're right its a M1887 bayonet.! These used the "bar-on-band" style of side attachment which is why they have a lower muzzle ring.
All the later Turkish bayonets had a highset muzzle ring because their Mauser supplied rifles had the bayonet bar situated on the underside of the front band.
This one has got a lot of markings on it. The five pointed star as you saw on the pommel is matched with the crescent on the other side, but no Tughra cypher.
The spine of the blade is marked with a six pointed star and crescent, and it also has the star over 'heart shape thingy' you mentioned on front of the crossguard.
This bayonet is marked as being made by Weyersberg Kirschbaum & Cie in the year of 1306, so making it one of the latest of these made ie. a 1889/90 vintage.
I'm not that sure about your 'Mauser as maker' theory as I have never heard of them making any bayonets for the Turks, and the markings on the rifles don't match.
I have found some more of these Turkish symbols that are also commonly found on the Mauser rifles. These are a bit more clear so perhaps you could take a look.?
WKC maker.jpg 14.39K
Turk symbols.jpg 25.11K