13 replies to this topic

[Tischris RIR]

Hello,

I have been trying to trace my Grandfather's Army record to give my Mum a picture of the soldier he was. (She adored him & he died in a military hospital in 1944 when she was 9yrs old)  I've  been lucky enough to get hold of the attached POW Attestation kindly sent by the ICRC.
Lo & behold it reads very confusing. I'm trying to 'place' him at the POW camps mentioned but it keeps referring back to Aachen etc. The letter with it stated that he was captured at either Fricourt or Albert in France & that they have to transcribe word for word even if it makes no sense. I've worked out that Lazzartts are in fact hospitals. Apart from that, I can't really trace his movements between camp/hospitals?

I would be so grateful if any of you more experienced researchers would be able to put the following list into plainer English for me?

Thank you in advance,

Chris  C Aiken POW record.jpg   71.3K   3 downloads

[Doc2]

Unfortunately, there are no specific dates for his moves, and all the details are simply given in consolidated reports, often well after the fact.  So, all the dates are simply to the effect that "prior to this date, something happened".

This is not my area of expertise, so I may be corrected, but I think the best way to interpret this data is the following:


Captured at Albert or Cricourt

Prior to 29 May 1916, transferred from St. Quentin to a hospital in Aachen. I bet that the description “reslz” stands for “reserve lazarette”, which was simply one term for a hospital behind the lines. It differed from a “feldlazarette” and “kriegslazarette”, which were a Divisional asset and more mobile.  But note, this does not really give the date he was moved to the hospital—the 29 May 1916 was simply the date on the report. He left the hospital probably in April 1916, so this transfer was probably in March/April 1916.  

Prior to 21 June 1916—transferred from Aachen to POW Camp at Friedrichsfeld. He was assigned to Barracks 2B.  Apparently he actually arrived sometime between 16 and 30 April 1916, according to a list dated 13 May 1916.  

There is a gap in the records between late April 1916 to early September 1916.

Sometime in this gap period, he was sent to the hospital in Goldap. We are given no information as to when he went to the Goldap hospital.

At some time he was transferred from Reserve Lazarette Goldap to Heilsberg.  This was sometime before 19 September 1916, but we don’t know the actual date.  I wonder (though not well documented) if this was a inter-hospital transfer, as there was another type of field hospital at Heilsberg.

He was in another hospital (krgsgf Lazett Heilsberg) prior to 30 September 1916 and was still there as of 5 October 1916.

Sometime prior to 17 January 1917, he was discharged from the hospital at Heilsberg and returned to the Heilsberg POW camp.  

Sometime after that, he was apparently moved to someplace named Staullupönen, and then prior to October 2 1917, he was back in the hospital at Heilsberg.

It looks like he had a pretty unhealthy time of it, being in and out of hospitals all the time of his captivity.  

I hope that helps a bit.   Doc

[Tischris RIR]

Hello Doc,

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me. It's so much clearer to me now.

One consolation I can give to my Mum, is that he would have been better treated at the hospitals than at some of the camps - I've read some diaries of in-patients who say they were better off than the German soldiers guarding them! Although ill, (I know he had shrapnel wounds), he was one of the lucky ones - his two brothers never made it home, KIA 1916 & 1919.  

The photo below is my Grandfather Christopher Aiken (standing left) at one of the POW camps -  I have been trying to name the camp where it was taken.

I'll keep researching - I've learned so much through this forum alone!
Once again, many thanks for your help.

Chris.

Attached Files

•  Christopher Aiken (L) POW.jpg   68.6K   1 downloads

[Doc2]

You're welcome.  Glad I could help a bit.   Doc

[Doug Johnson]

Chris,

Aachen was the main location for the treatment of the wounded and his injuries must have been quite bad for him to have spent some time there.  There were numerous hospitals at Aachen, around seven or so that were used for treating PoWs.  

Both Goldap and Stallupönen are sub camps of Heilsberg.  Transfers to hospital and between head camps are generally reported but not transfers from head camps to sub-camps. It looks therefore that most of his transfers have been listed.  It is not unusual for wounded prisoners to be in and out of hospitals with brief periods of work in between.  Heilsberg had one British officer and 997 men there in October 1918 out of over 95 000 that were registered there at the time.  Most of those including most of the British would have been at some sub-camp or work location though.

HEILSBERG by Mrs P_H

A big camp on the outskirts  of the town divided by a chaussee, the camp proper being on one side and the lazaret on the other.  Consists of fifty earth huts.  Centre of commandos engaged in agriculture and in rebuilding the devastated town of Goldap and other places.  7th Army Corps

Doug

PS is there anything on the back of the photograph?

[Tischris RIR]

Hi Doug,

Thank you for replying & the info.  I've been plowing through every archived photo collection on the net in my quest to name the camp in the above photo! (nothing on the back).

I think I may have struck lucky with this photograph (below) of French prisoners at Friedrichsfeld? The gap in the trees on the left of the pic., the roof, ground etc., all look like the same as those in my photo - only taken at a different angle. The shape of the trees are the main reason that I've reached this conclusion ie; the left hand gap in the trees of the 'French' picture would have been obscured by the trees nearest the camera when my photo was taken further to right? It's hard to explain it on a keyboard!

Maybe I'm clutching at straws. Maybe a photographic 'expert' could tell. It's easy to 'see' things that aren't there because it's a quick solution - but I want to be sure that I record my little piece of family history without any errors. We owe them that.

I have read some of the PoW diaries of the treatment at some of the camps - oh how these men suffered, even if they were treated well. I can only imagine my Grandfathers movements between hospital & work - he was moved around so much

Chris

Attached Files

•  Friedrichsfeld french prisoners.jpg   91.35K   0 downloads

[W.J.Caughey]

Hi Chris, sorry cant help much about photo, but i have a Newspaper Memoriam notice for Walter Aiken put in from wife and mother and one from chum, it mentions his
brother Christopher POW East Prussia, if you havn't seen it i can email you it, you can get intouch with me
by my email address which you will find in my website at bottom of page.

Walter

[Doug Johnson]

Chris,

There is another striking similarity; the white? retangular label on the left side.  Many camps numbered their prisoners and the method of marking varied between camps.  Some had large labels, much larger than these, others had cap numbers and others used parcel type labels.  At least one had the name of the camp on their labels.

If it is Friedrichsfeld then he was at least relatively well at the time.

Doug

[Tischris RIR]

Hi Walter,

Thank you so much! I never came across anything in about Walter in the papers - my Mum is going to be so chuffed with this piece of news! I'll go to your website pronto!


Doug,

I did wonder about the labels - made up 'wee scenarios' in my mind about them too! I wondered how some were allowed to not display the badge, then I remembered reading somewhere that you were given a badge to excuse you from work if you had just been discharged from the hospital? He looks relatively well here, though my Mum sees how gaunt he looks. He never regained good health, always had chest problems. In WW2 he was an ARP Warden & died in a Military hospital leaving my mum a war orphan (while his 2 sons fought in the war). Her sister became her 'mother' figure & rescued her from a home. So sad.

Chris

[Tischris RIR]

Hello Walter,

What a fabulous website you have - I'm surprised I haven't stumbled across it in my research! I'll no doubt go through it page-by-page because I get so engrossed.

I couldn't find a link to e-mail you though?

Chris

[jamie 1978]

Chris,

This is a transcription of origial documents held by the ICRC. Ask them icely for copies of the originals- I did this for my own grandfathers record and in addition to what they had transcribed there was detail of who he had written to, In his case it was the pilot he was shot down with.

Jamie

[dannybou]

I have visited the ICRC Archives page and am I reading it correctly? They would charge me 100 Swiss Francs for an attestation document of a POW in World War One?

Danny

[SPOF]

Danny

While they are digitising their archives, no research will be done http://www.icrc.org/...2011-07-27.htm. You just need to keep your fingers crossed that events like Syria don't draw on too much of the RC's resources and slow down less important porjects like this.

GLen

[dannybou]

OK thanks Glen. Will wait.

Danny