58 replies to this topic

[Dragon]

..

Edited by Dragon, 23 September 2004 - 12:46 PM.

[Swni]

I hope that one of your contacts is able to help and that it wont be too much trouble for you or them.  

Thanks again Gwyn

Sue  

[Christina Holstein]

If it's from WWI Palestine, I would expect it to be in Turkish, which in those days was written using the Arab script. It was Ataturk who changed the writing of Turkish from Arabic to Roman letters, thereby deliberately cutting 'modern' Turkish off from it's past. If you get nowhere with your Arabic contacts, try contacting the history dept. at Istanbul or Ankara universities and see if someone there can help you. Or try the Turkish dept. at an English university for someone who can read pre-Ataturk script.

Christina

[Dragon]

..

Edited by Dragon, 23 September 2004 - 12:47 PM.

[marina]

After all this, I bet it'll say:

Missing.
One tabby cat.
Reward...



Gwyn

  
Gwyn, you devil, you made me splurt my coffee all over the keyboard!!
marina

[Swni]

Gwyn thats twice you've made me laugh today!!   Sorry I havent answered before but I only just discovered that I had TWO pages of postings and so hadnt read them all (Im new to this game you know so dont laugh at me please!)  Thanks for the email, I look forward to hearing more from your VERY educated middle eastern friends!!

Christina - thats a good suggestion if Gwyn's friends cant get it translated - if you know any addresses...please let me know.  Thanks.

Marina - she made me laugh uncontrollably too and I was alone in the house....it felt very strange laughing out loud on my own!!  

and lastly - Egbert - please dont be too hard on Gwyn .... they arent shadowy underworld illegals workers after all!!

Sue

[Dragon]

..

Edited by Dragon, 23 September 2004 - 12:49 PM.

[marina]

Enough is enough! You're placed effective immediately on the "persona non grata" list for Langley
[QUOTE=egbert,Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:11:21 +0000] did?!  


Egbert, please don't make Gwyn persona non grata.  She made me LAUGH in a month that has been very dire indeed.  Gwyn, if Egbert insists, you must move north near me where you'll be appreciated!
Marina

[ypres]

Egbert

is that Langley near Eastbourne?

Gwyn,
don't worry Seaford will look after you, us northeners have to stick together (even if i do live in the south!)

Mandy

[Kate Wills]

Silly me - I thought you meant LangleyBaston.

[Dragon]

Could I add something, please, in the hope it won’t be taken the wrong way.

I don’t mind being teased (by Egbert or anyone else), but the reason I got involved in this thread was to try and help Sue with her special document. The people I can ask to help are real humans for whom the threat of surveillance, intimidation and ‘disappearance’ are very real in the regimes they have fled. None of us know how far reaching a comment can be, however funny and light-hearted; and this is the Internet.

In fairness to them, I am going to focus on the point of the thread and I would really appreciate any comments staying clear of what might be sensitive areas for the people I know and care about.

Please take this in the spirit in which it is meant.

Gwyn

[michaeldr]

May I speak in support of Gwyn on this point and ask that forum members exercise a little more discretion in their postings.   I hope that my sense of humour is as broad as the next person’s, however it is easy to forget that not everyone who uses this forum lives in a western style democracy and that some security agencies are more pro-active than others.   As we saw in Washington only yesterday, even those who napped up to 9/11 are now awaking from their slumbers.   Let us not overlook either, the good work done at Cheltenham, where an investigation need not be based upon sound logic or even horse-sense, but triggered simply by the use in a communication of certain key words.

Remember the former US Sec of State Dr. H.K; ‘Even paranoids have enemies.’

I hope that we can now return to the original question here

Regards
Michael D.R.

[Matthew King]

Here are the two documents I mentioned in an earlier post that I was hoping someone could identify what they were about.  They are both sides of one piece of paper.  Any help would be great, thanks

Matt

[Christina Holstein]

Sue,

I may be able to find a Turkish contact that can help. May I send him your email address?

Christina

[Dragon]

..

Edited by Dragon, 23 September 2004 - 12:50 PM.

[Swni]

Thanks Christina - yes if you think he can help please do.

Gwyn - thanks for your continued endeavours - its proving quite a difficult thing to translate isn't it?  Of course if a translation comes from any other quarter I will let you know immediately!

Look forward to hearing from you.

Sue  

[Dragon]

..

Edited by Dragon, 23 September 2004 - 12:51 PM.

[Charles Fair]

Sgts Hurcomb and Sedgewick are of the 2/19th Battalion, London Regiment.

... indeed, they most certainly were 19th Londons.  From my database:

Sgt Frederick George HURCOMB (numbers 3876 and 611058)
believed to have enlisted about mid April 1915
Wounded 20/02/18 at Talat ed Dumm
resided 60, Grafton Rd, St Pancras

Sgt James Walter SEDGWICK (numbers 4655 and 611488)
believed to have enlisted about late May 1915
resided 14 Theobald St, New Kent Rd, Southwark

Both men went to France with 2/19th when it went overseas with 60 Division on 24/06/16, and then served in Salonika (Dec 1916 - June 1917) and then in Egypt and Palestine until the end of the war.

John Player and Sons produced a series of 50 cigarette cards of 'Uniforms of the Territorial Army' in about 1940.  Card number 36 is of a Sgt of the 2/19th and is clearly identifiable as one of the men in the photo Michael posted above.

Swni, it is quite possible that your relative was with a London unit, as 60 Division received a large draft of 3,000 RAMC men in late May 1916 shortly before it went overseas (see this thread).  Many of these men were Welsh, and some ended up in the 2/19th.

The 19th London Regiment had an annual Jerusalem Dinner on the saturday closest to the capture of the city - usually the first in the month.  This tradition was maintained throughout the interwar period, though I dont know whether it lapsed immediately after 1945.  Reports of these dinners in the regimental journal often include comments such as "all ranks were particularly delighted to see Taffy Jones who made the long journey from Ebbw Vale to be with his old comrades".

The key to Jerusalem eventually ended up with the 20th Londons and apparently exists somewhere in a storage room in a drill hall somewhere in London.  I am trying to track it down.

Charles

[michaeldr]

Charles,

Many thanks for the extra details re the sergeants
Your search for the ‘key to Jerusalem’ has a hint of a latter day Indiana Jones story
The very best of luck with your quest

Regards
Michael D.R.

[Swni]

Basically, it isn't on to accept the freely given help and time of my willing friends and then to ask someone else to do what the friends have promised to try to do before they've had a proper chance to resolve the question. I am now in the embarrassing position of having to communicate this development to my friends.

Gwyn

My apologies Gwyn

I am new to this having only come onto the forum a week Sunday for the first time and never having used any forum before I am obvously not aware of all the protocol that goes with it.  The last thing I want to do is offend anyone I am only hear to see if I can solve several puzzles within our family and to help others if I have information that may be of use to them.

It has upset me that I appear to have offended you.  I am very grateful that you have undertaken to try and get this document translated for me and am very excited about the prospect.  I have also been grateful to all who have taken time to read my posts and contribute their own ideas and suggestions, I do not like to be rude to anyone so try to respond to all who take part.  I will bear in mind what you have said in the future when responding to other messages.  Please give my apologies to your friends and thank them for their efforts.  

Sue  

[Christina Holstein]

I'm the one who's upset Gwyn, Sue, not you. Sorry Gwyn, I didn't mean to do that and wouldn't have looked at it like that if it was I who had asked friends to help in the first place.

Sue, if you'd prefer to let my offer lie until Gwyn's friends have had a go, that's fine by me.

Christina

[Swni]

Yes thats fine by me Christina and probably the best idea.  I certainly didnt mean to cause problems!

Sue  

[bluedog]

Swni
Try to contact Murat CULCU c/o Denizler KITABEVI
at :
turgayerol@turk.net
or at
studyografik@hotmail.com

Mr. Culcu translated the diary of Lt. Mehmed fasih
of the 5th. Imperial Ottoman Army from the old
Ottoman script to modern Turkish and it was then
translated into English by Hasan Basri DANISMAN
Bluedog

[Swni]

Thanks very much for the info Bluedog - If Gwyn's friends are unable to translate at least I have a few other people who may be willing to try.  Its much appreciated.

Sue

[marina]

Did this poster ever get translated?  I'm mad with curiosity!
Marina