17 replies to this topic

[Linda Rockett]

Does anyone know where in Palestine the 440 coy R.G.A. were in early Dec 1917 and what division / group they were with?

  My Grandfather, Reginald S Wood, was involved with moving a battery of guns belonging to the 440 coy R.G.A. when the tractor slipped and his hand was injured. He was in 980 M.T Coy A.S.C. Regiment number M-225207. I should be interested to know where he was.

  On the website is says the 980 M.T Coy A.S.C. were part of the Ammunition Column for 423 Siege Battery, but I don't understand the set up.

He reported that he was admitted to the 10^th Div F.A.T. Latron 4 days later.  Could someone tell me what "F.A.T. Latron" means?

   Many thanks for your help,

  Linda

[Eran]

Hi LInda,

During the replacement of the forces on the front line in the Judean Hills late Nov.- early Dec. 1917, the 10th Irish Division arrived at Latron on Nov. 30th and during Dec. 2-5 replaced units in the line alomg the biblical 'Passage of Horon', North-West of Jerusalem. Latron itself is an area with quite a few interesting sites. At that time there was a tiny village there, within and around a Crusade Fort. It is located West of Jerusalem, on the edge of the biblical 'Vale of Ayalon', on the ancient main road connecting Jaffa on the coast & Jerusalem. According to a 19th century tradition - It is the hometown of 'The Good Thief'.

I am not familiar with the initials F.A.T.

Hope that helps a bit. By the way, a live 10 minutes drive from Latron...


Eran

[Eran]

Thought about it – Maybe 'Field Ambulance Train'. Fits the fact that he was injured.

Eran

Linda Rockett, on 26 October 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

Does anyone know where in Palestine the 440 coy R.G.A. were in early Dec 1917 and what division / group they were with?

  My Grandfather, Reginald S Wood, was involved with moving a battery of guns belonging to the 440 coy R.G.A. when the tractor slipped and his hand was injured. He was in 980 M.T Coy A.S.C. Regiment number M-225207. I should be interested to know where he was.

  On the website is says the 980 M.T Coy A.S.C. were part of the Ammunition Column for 423 Siege Battery, but I don't understand the set up.

He reported that he was admitted to the 10^th Div F.A.T. Latron 4 days later.  Could someone tell me what "F.A.T. Latron" means?

   Many thanks for your help,

  Linda

[Linda Rockett]

Eran, on 26 October 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

Hi LInda,

During the replacement of the forces on the front line in the Judean Hills late Nov.- early Dec. 1917, the 10th Irish Division arrived at Latron on Nov. 30th and during Dec. 2-5 replaced units in the line alomg the biblical 'Passage of Horon', North-West of Jerusalem. Latron itself is an area with quite a few interesting sites. At that time there was a tiny village there, within and around a Crusade Fort. It is located West of Jerusalem, on the edge of the biblical 'Vale of Ayalon', on the ancient main road connecting Jaffa on the coast & Jerusalem. According to a 19th century tradition - It is the hometown of 'The Good Thief'.

I am not familiar with the initials F.A.T.

Hope that helps a bit. By the way, a live 10 minutes drive from Latron...


Eran

[Linda Rockett]

Many thanks for for your information Eran, it is much appreciated.

I will look at the maps in my bible / bible websites for the places you mention. It will be good to build up a picture of where he was & what he was doing.

Thank you,
Linda

[Eran]

Although the name Latron appears in many WW1 books, today it is known better as Latrun. Google that and you will find plenty of info.

[rflory]

Linda Rockett wrote:

Quote

Does anyone know where in Palestine the 440 coy R.G.A. were in early Dec 1917 and what division / group they were with?
My Grandfather, Reginald S Wood, was involved with moving a battery of guns belonging to the 440 coy R.G.A. when the tractor slipped and his hand was injured. He was in 980 M.T Coy A.S.C. Regiment number M-225207. I should be interested to know where he was.

I think there is some confusion here. There was no RGA Company with the number '440.' I think that the unit must be 440th Siege Battery, RGA (four 6" Howitzers) that served in Palestine under 96th Heavy Artillery Group (HAG), RGA. The battery left Southampton for Havre, France on 24 Sept 1917. It proceeded through France and Italy reaching Taranto on 27 Sept 1917. On 20 Oct 1917 it sailed with all guns and stores for Alexandria, reaching there on 24 Oct. On 27 Oct 1917 it was at Kantara. 980th Motor Transport Company, ASC was attached to the 96th HAG on the next day. The Battery took part in the Battle of Beersheba on 31 October 1917 while attached to the 53rd Division. During November 1917 it was engaged near Wadi Hanafish and Karm. During December it fought around Jerusalem and in January was in position near Bireh. From February through June the Battery fired from various positions in Palestine which are only indicated by map coordinates. On 26 June 1918 the Battery went into rest camp near Ain Sinia.

Regards, Dick Flory

[Linda Rockett]

[quote name='rflory' timestamp='1319696537' post='1660739']
[size="2"]Thank you Dick for all your help. That explains why I couldn't find any reference to 440 Coy. I was just going by what my grandfather had written in a statement/letter he wrote. [/size]

[size="2"][/size]

[size="2"]Do you know if the 423 Siege Battery were also attached to the 96th HAG? [/size]

[size="2"]On   [url="http://www.1914-1918.net/asc.htm"]http://www.1914-1918.net/asc.htm[/url] it says that the 980 M.T Coy A.S.C. were part of the Ammunition Column for 423 Siege Battery. Maybe at some stage the 980 Coy were reassigned?[/size]

[size="2"][/size]

[size="2"]Following my Grandfather's accident in Dec 1917 and a spell in hospital, he undertook general duties at Kantara before being assigned to the 982 M.T Coy A.S.C in Feb 1918 until Feb 1919.[/size]

[size="2"]If you don't mind me asking, do you know where they were at that time? The website says that the 982 M.T Coy A.S.C. were part of the Ammunition Column for 420 Siege Battery.[/size]

[size="2"][/size]

[size="2"]Many thanks,[/size]

[size="2"]Linda[/size]

[Linda Rockett]

[quote name='Eran' timestamp='1319664293' post='1660651']
Although the name Latron appears in many WW1 books, today it is known better as Latrun. Google that and you will find plenty of info.

Thank you Eran, I have been having a look, following your message.
Linda

[michaeldr]

He was in 980 M.T Coy A.S.C. Regiment number M-225207. I should be interested to know where he was.


Linda,

You might get some information regarding the 980 MT Coy. ASC from their files at the National Archives; they are ref.s WO95/4466 & WO95/4488
Similarly, the National Archive file for 982 MT Coy. ASC is WO95/4503

If I am allowed a guess, then I would say that “10th Div F.A.” probably refers to the 10th Division's Field Ambulance which may then have been stationed at Latrun. What the final 'T' stands for has me beat though.

Good luck
Michael

[Linda Rockett]

Many thanks Michael for the information and advice. I appreciate your help.
I was going to attach the report he wrote where he refers to The 10th Div F.A.T. Latron, but the file is too large to attach.  

He did make it home from the war, although died when I was only three.

Thanks again,
Linda

[AndyR]

Hi Linda

Not really helpful to you but giving a brief idea of the location is Knott's account from IWM/NA - he was with a 10th Div F.Amb (32nd) in Latron in early December - whether it's where you're grandfather was treated is of course impossible to know - his report might help shed some light?

Thurs Dec 6th – At 9.30 a.m. we continued our journey passing through Latrone. At the entrance to the village we witnessed a very Eastern scene namely the drawing of water by the women. They were attired in robes of every colour, as usual discussing in loud and rapid speech who was the first there, etc. The earthenware jars were balanced on their heads if they did not possess a donkey. Most of the male inhabitants were of the Bedouins type with their long robes of goatskin and peculiar headgear. At five miles beyond this village we camped in a fertile valley on either side the hills gently slope and here and there villages are discernible when the sun rays catch them but in dull weather look like huge rocks so similar is the colour to the landscape. Here we pitched our hospital in the centre of the valley while ‘B’ section went 2 miles in advance to form a dressing station. The night again brought rain, it seems as though this is a rain season as the clouds hang low and heavy almost continuously.

Fri Dec 7th – We have indeed alighted on ‘strong ground’, the whole valley has been cultivated and stones are scattered everywhere. The thorns spoken of are also present which makes the parable of the sower very realistic.

Sat Dec 8th – This morning five civilians were taken prisoners for standing on the housetop directing Turkish artillery on ‘B’ section station! On the other hand there was a man and his sister wounded by the Turks for refusing to give them food. This evening I climbed the hill lying west of us, and had a beautiful view for miles round even into Ramleh and Jaffa. I also found some caves no doubt originally occupied by robbers; they were some fifteen feet down to the entrance, the passage consisting of huge stones forming steps. The evacuation itself is a huge place, but we did not venture in too far in case of accidents!

Andy

[rflory]

423rd Siege Battery, RGA did not serve with 96th HAG, but it did serve with 97th HAG from 30 November 1917 to 1 March 1918.  Dick Flory

[Linda Rockett]

Thank you Dick, bit by bit I shall get there.

Good to have members to guide me in the right direction.

Sorry it took a few days to get back to you, but we have been away over the weekend.

Cheers, Linda

[Linda Rockett]

Thank you Andy, I found that very interesting and it helps give a picture of the environment they were in.
I very much appreciate your time and trouble to post all that detail.
As I wrote to Dick, I'm sorry it took a few days to get back to you, but we have been away over the weekend.
Thanks again, Linda

[michaeldr]

Linda,

I'm still guessing here, but the more that I think about it the more I am persuaded that your grandfather's note giving “10th Div. F A” refers to the 10th Division's Field Ambulance and that his final 'T' probably refers to that Field Ambulance's 'Tent Division' where he would have received treatment – see the quote and link below:
A Field Ambulance composed of a Headquarters Company [A coy] which formed the MDS, and two companies [B & C Coys] which deployed forward to form the two ADS's. Each of these companies were further sub-divided into two parts namely the 'Tent division' who were the medical staff and formed the treatment area, and the 'bearer' sub-division who were the stretcher-bearers collecting the casualties from the RAPs, and carrying them back to the 'tent division' at the ADS, or manning the relay posts
from http://www.ramc-ww1...._evacuation.php

regards
Michael

[Linda Rockett]

Thank you so much Michael for helping me in this way and for your perseverance - I was at a loss.

I have now read the article on the link you posted and your suggestion, together with that information could well be the answer.

Grandpa wrote, “Re the accident to my thumb on 4^th Dec 1917, I first reported to the Dressing Station near the front line, & I was admitted to the 10^th Div F.A.T. Latron on the 8^th ___? From there I was sent to hospital at Belah.”


As he says "He was admitted to..." it sounds more like a place than a mode of transport.

Thank you.

[Linda Rockett]

You might get some information regarding the 980 MT Coy. ASC from their files at the National Archives; they are ref.s WO95/4466 & WO95/4488
Similarly, the National Archive file for 982 MT Coy. ASC is WO95/4503
Michael

I think that the unit must be 440th Siege Battery, RGA (four 6" Howitzers) that served in Palestine under 96th Heavy Artillery Group (HAG), RGA. On 27 Oct 1917 it was at Kantara & 980th Motor Transport Company, ASC was attached to the 96th HAG on the next day.
Dick Flory

Update – I took your advice Michael and had a day at the National Archives looking at the War Diaries - references above. I photographed the relevant sections and have just started going through them. Very interesting.

I have found Dick where it says, "Company detailed to 440 Siege Battery R.G.A."
I shall enjoy reading about what my Grandpa was involved in.

Thanks again to you both for your help.
Linda