28 replies to this topic

[252 gunner]

I'm just starting researching my maternal Grandfather ,  Pvt Henry Duckworth No.1429 , 2 Btn [3rd Btn re-inforcement] South lancs Reg , captured at 'La Bassee' 20-22/10/1914
   I was told by my mother that he served in India WW1  with the 1st Btn. and I'm sure thats what she really believed  that herself  ,  which leads to the Question were the returning POWs regarded as 'column dodgers ' or someone of 'lesser courage' by the Populace in General and the Press in particular ,  by the mere fact that they never made 'the supreme sacrifice' .   also with regards to the poster of the day        " what did you do in the War Daddy"  were the men made to feel ashamed ? and were the men stigmatized by society on their return  to the UK  that they couldnt/wouldnt tell their own children what  had happened !

regards  John

Attached Files

•  POW Detail..jpeg   46.33K   0 downloads

[centurion]

Given his date of enlistment he could well have served in India before the war. I've never seen any sniff of any stigma on returning POWs in any account I've seen.

[munster]

What they went through as prisoners they definately had no reason to be ashamed and very many of them did make the supreme sacrafice whilst prisoners from malnutrition,abuse and disease.Those captured early in the war had a long road ahead of them.john

[252 gunner]

Pre WW1  ,  he enlisted for the 'Boer war'  then served the rest of his  12 years  in India , then 4 years 'special reserve'  which brought him back to the colours  for the Great war  , he died in the early nineteen thirties .
   Can't fathom it myself  either  , but the attitudes of 1919 were different to now and due to the horrendous personal losses involved  would I think give rise to resentment of somekind  possibly not spoken aloud . or perhaps just 'survivor guilt'
  

John

[Doug Johnson]

John,

Returning PoWs were generally given a heroes welcome when they returned as the public were aware of the conditions under which they were detained though in many cases this was not nearly as bad as they believed.  I have not seen any evidence at all that they were considered lesser men in any way.

Survivor guilt is a bit different and it certainly afflicted J R Ackerley quite badly.  In his case the cause was his brother's death whilst he was a PoW.  J R Ackerley however seems to have been a sensitive soul amongst other things.

Doug

[centurion]

As has been discussed in earlier threads returning POWs received an elaborate facsimile letter from George V welcoming them home and thanking them for their sacrifices. These were extremely well produced and occasionally still turn up with people saying "gosh a signed letter from King George" and rushing round to a dealer only to be disappointed. I understand that it was the King himself who came up with the idea. So no stigma there.

[Rusty2727]

Hi guy's,

Would there have been any mention by name in their local press of returning POW's or was there just far to many of them for this to happen? i assume this may only of happened if officer material and not other ranks?

[centurion]

Rusty2727, on 21 January 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Hi guy's,

Would there have been any mention by name in their local press of returning POW's or was there just far to many of them for this to happen? i assume this may only of happened if officer material and not other ranks?

I have seen reports of OR POWs returning. I suspect there was no formal notification of soldiers returning so local press would depend on people bothering to tell them. If the man was already well known locally this would be more likely to happen (and more newsworthy). There would be a lot of men returning anyway given the de mobilisation of serving soldiers and it may have been hard for the local press to distinguish ex POWs from amongst them. So I'm afraid its that age old answer - "it depends"

[CGM]

The Times printed lists of returned POW although this might have been mostly officers. (I would appreciate it if someone who knows could clarify this for me.)

CGM

[archangel9]

The Times did print lists of returning PoW's including OR's, but I'm not sure how extensive these lists were.

E.g.
 returnred pows.jpg   88.88K   1 downloads

John

[Rusty2727]

John,

Would it be possible to get a copy of your attachment? wouldn't mind have a wee nose at that.

So if a returning soldier was mentioned in the Times would that be quite easily researchable?

Russ

[CGM]

Thank you John. There are certainly OR's there.

CGM

[archangel9]

Russ,

PM me your email address and I'll send it on.

John

[centurion]

Local press appears to have been a bit hit and miss

Canon John Bryan about nine years ago produced an article entitled KING'S CLIFFE AND THE FIRST GREAT WAR 1914 TO 1918 which contains numerous excerpts from the Stamford and Rutland News. The very short bit on POWs [22nd January 1919 "REPATRIATED PRISONERS] says " All the boys have returned safely, and all look remarkably well, with the exception of Private Tom Dixon. Private Dixon says he had a terrible time - bad food and serious illness. He says he never expected to see old England again. We hope he will soon be strong. " Apart from the unfortunate Tom no other names are mentioned.. I fear that this may not be untypical of local papers - bad news usually trumps good news..

[Retlaw]

Rusty2727, on 21 January 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Hi guy's,

Would there have been any mention by name in their local press of returning POW's or was there just far to many of them for this to happen? i assume this may only of happened if officer material and not other ranks?

There was a full list of returning P-o-W's in the Accrington Observer, the town council laid on a welcome home ceromony and a meal, in January 1919. Then another one in February 1919. New Lane Baptist Church in Oswaldtwistle, also had a Welcome Home Ceremony in March 1920.

Retlaw

[mmm45]

Lots of coverage of returning POWs in my local paper....The Town Hall put on a civic reception for them all in Feb 1919
Lots of stories of hardships etc endured at least 4 POWs from my town died in captivity

Ady

[centurion]

Retlaw, on 21 January 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

There was a full list of returning P-o-W's in the Accrington Observer, the town council laid on a welcome home ceromony and a meal, in January 1919. Then another one in February 1919. New Lane Baptist Church in Oswaldtwistle, also had a Welcome Home Ceremony in March 1920.

Retlaw

March 1920 seems very late for repatriated POWs

[auchonvillerssomme]

There were still British prisoners being repatriated from Russia at that date.

[Rusty2727]

so for instance a KLR man returning in say back end 1918 to Liverpool, its more than possible he may be named in the local paper of the time, would this have been the Echo? (not sure if the Echo was around then?) or was there another local tabloid for that period? and would there be a archive to reasearch?

[CarylW]

Rusty2727, on 22 January 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

so for instance a KLR man returning in say back end 1918 to Liverpool, its more than possible he may be named in the local paper of the time, would this have been the Echo? (not sure if the Echo was around then?) or was there another local tabloid for that period? and would there be a archive to reasearch?

The Echo was around at that time and also the Liverpool Daily Post. Liverpool Record Office have both on microfilm (undergoing  refurbishment and temporarily be based at the World Museum http://liverpool.gov...es/central.aspx) (also the British library Colindale) Also the Times published some lists of repatriated prisoners of war (although I don't know how complete or comprehensive they were Edit: I see this has already been mentioned) and that is available online and can often be accessed using your local library membership details

[Rusty2727]

Hi Kate,

Thanks for that, it could be a avenue to explore! in fact there's nothing to loose reasearching this, so thanks again for the info.

Russ

[Rusty2727]

Going a little bit off subject, does anyone no if there is anywhere that might hold photo's of individual soldiers? no family members have any, just wondering if the battalion would archive this?....is this worth an avenue to explore?

[Angrybudgie]

Have just been researching returning POW's in 'The Times'........there are certainly lists of both Officers and OR's printed, but they are rather hit and miss. By the end of the war everyone's minds were turning to the future. I did have in mind to ferret out all the lists and make a data base of those listed. However this project will have to wait til later in the year. As to returnees not getting a reception until 1920, there were certainly some still coming home from Germany and definitely from Turkey.  As to researching the Times on line, they have recently changed their layout and I am still working out the ins and outs.  At the moment I have the feeling they have made more user UNfriendly.....



Elizabeth

[Rusty2727]

Hi Elizabeth,

If i wanted to check if a returning POW was mentioned in the Time's by name, how would i go about this? is this something i can do online?

[Angrybudgie]

Sorry I missed this Rusty, I've been rather busy with work..

Being in Australia, I find it very difficult to check their archive any other way, so I have set up a database access through my state library. I am sure that your local library will be able to do this for you as well or know how you can go about it.  Once you can access the archive, I am afraid it becomes trial and error re working out the key words that will give you the information you want.

The other option is - As I have already gone through this would you like to give me his name, number and unit and I will have a look, although if he wasn't an officer, there is no guarantee his name will be listed.

Elizabeth