24 replies to this topic

[biffrocks]

Hi

Can anyone tell me whether this ID Tag is from WW1, I have tried searching the national archives website but can't seem to find anything. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.



Thanks


Rob

[mark holden]

Hi Rob,

I would say LONDON Regt WW1 but no medal card I can find so possibly did not serve overseas.

regards

Mark

[biffrocks]

mark holden, on 13 November 2011 - 02:38 PM, said:

Hi Rob,

I would say LONDON Regt WW1 but no medal card I can find so possibly did not serve overseas.

regards

Mark

Hi MarkThanks for your advice, wonder if anyone out there can help me identify any other details with regard to regiment.
Rob

[Peter Doyle]

This is a little unusual in that the fibre discs were issued in pairs, with the octagonal disc (to be left with the body) a greenish colour, and the round disc (to be taken from the body) a reddish colour. This one appears reddish and has a more octagonal shape. Such variants exist, of course.  The regimental number suggests WW1, and as it appears to say Lond for London, one would argue that it is from one of the 24 or so battalions of the territorial London Regiment.

Cheers
Peter

[mark holden]

Peter,

I think its a 'sweat' stained green with a hint of modern photography that has distorted the colour a tad. On the subject of which tag stayed with the body, I have a plaque and pair to a Sherwood Foresters KiA 29 Sept 1918 which includes his green hexagonal id tag so I assume that this was an error when he was buried. regards Mark

[york16]

the attached pic are my grandads dog tags, the octagonal ones are actually the grey colour that appear in the pic, most likely faded over the years,
regards,
John.

[Peter Doyle]

Interesting...I wouldn't say that the green/grey ones were all 1930s, as I have several definite WW1 provenance ones that are grey/green (and the pics posted by others seem to support this too). However, what this shows, I guess, is that there is variation in colour - which is new to me.

Cheers
Peter

[Peter Doyle]

Green, grey-green, grey - whatever takes your fancy. Assuming you are happy with the tags in post 6 ( a big assumption I guess), then this is what I mean by green. (Which presumably you see as brown, or grey or something - fair enough, definitions will vary). I take your point on the WW2 tags, but had assumed, obviously wrongly, that the earlier vintage ones were just faded. Shows how wrong one can be, eh?

Peter

PS– Thanks for your 'comment' on my book. Much appreciated.

[in case you're wondering - this was in reply to a post now deleted by its original author]

[york16]

I'm happy the discs in post 6 are the real deal,the first one dates from 1916 when grandad was in the 6th Koyli and the pair from 1918 when he was transfered to the 3rd London regiment,they were passed on to me with his medals,badges and all the silk postcards he sent home by my gran!,
cheers,
John.

[Peter Doyle]

I agree with you John - the debate was over the shade of green used to define these tags. I think yours helps the debate.
Peter

[DavidB]

Were there different suppliers of i/d tags ? I ask this because the shape of Johns'tags displayed in post 6 are quite a lot different to that originally

shown. I.e. much more rounded edges in the original post. It would appear that colours did vary, my g/fathers hex tags are quite a deep olive

green whilst the round tags differ appreciably, the original 1914 issue being quite faded. Can display if required.

[Peter Doyle]

Maybe so?  It would be good to see your grandfather's tags if that would be OK?

Peter

[auchonvillerssomme]

These are WW2 and WW1 tags. I would suggest the WW2 are slghtly greener even with the ingrained sweat stains. The orange/brown are the same colour.

Attached Files

•  ID.jpg   37.2K   0 downloads

[DavidB]

Peter,

        Am having trouble getting a good shot under lights, will try tomorrow to photo them in natural light.

[DavidB]

Piccy of my g/fathers tags. One set is his original issue, presumably 1914, the second after his service numbered had been changed in 1917.

Please excuse the string - it is original and probably the knot tied in 1917 so I am loath to undo it.  


 tmpphpah5sZI.jpg   36.84K   0 downloads

[auchonvillerssomme]

Why would you want to untie the string, a real connection to the man, sweat and all.

[DavidB]

Mick,

       Thats exactly why I didn't want to untie it - anyway as an ex sailor I only know granny knots.

[Jarebe]

Occassionally I have seen a third disk attached to a respirator bag, they may have been WW2 though, was this common?

[tony paley]

Just a querie, I was told during a recent WFA talk that only one identity disc was issued during the early part of WW1, explaining the large numbers of 'unknown'. During 1916 two were issued , one left on the body. My own, from the 50s are identical to the issue during WW1.

Tony P

[Peter Doyle]

Yes, early war, there was one tag only, originally aluminium but changed to compressed, vulcanized asbestos. The second (officially green, but grey/green as we have seen in practice - even red from the early posts in this thread) tag was added, this to remain with the body.  I am not sure how many of these, if any, have ever been found with soldiers' remains in recent years - it seems that most modern identifications have come from marked 'necessaries' and other kit, such as spoons, etc, or by 'private purchase' wrist chain type ID bracelets.

The third tag mentioned was certainly a WW2 innovation, and was indeed to be attached to the respirator bag.

Peter

[DavidB]

Peter Doyle, on 18 December 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

Yes, early war, there was one tag only, originally aluminium but changed to compressed, vulcanized asbestos. The second (officially green, but grey/green as we have seen in practice - even red from the early posts in this thread) tag was added, this to remain with the body.  I am not sure how many of these, if any, have ever been found with soldiers' remains in recent years - it seems that most modern identifications have come from marked 'necessaries' and other kit, such as spoons, etc, or by 'private purchase' wrist chain type ID bracelets.

The third tag mentioned was certainly a WW2 innovation, and was indeed to be attached to the respirator bag.

Peter

This practice must have ceased quite early as my g/father was originally called up in October 1914. The problem is do we know when the two disc system came into being  and

when was the aluminium disc abandoned in favour of the compressed fibre type? Even though it doesn't appear the same, the two round discs and two octagonal discs are exactly the

same sizes. The only difference is the size of the impressions on the later discs.

[CROONAERT]

rgartillery, on 19 December 2011 - 12:24 AM, said:

. The problem is do we know when the two disc system came into being  and when was the aluminium disc abandoned in favour of the compressed fibre type?

Plenty of information regarding dates,etc (not just of british discs) can be found by following the link here.... Identifying the Dead - ID tags 1914-18

[CROONAERT]

rgartillery, on 22 November 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:

Were there different suppliers of i/d tags ?

Yes. So far I've encountered the details of 3 different manufacturers in the UK (though there are certainly more) - even including documentation regarding the argument between one company and the WO about costings!  One of these even supplied to the Belgian army in 1918 also.

[Peter Doyle]

rgartillery, on 19 December 2011 - 12:24 AM, said:

This practice must have ceased quite early as my g/father was originally called up in October 1914. The problem is do we know when the two disc system came into being  and

when was the aluminium disc abandoned in favour of the compressed fibre type?

Details from John Bodsworth's book:

January 1907 - issue of aluminium disc

21 August 1914 - issue of red fibre disc

August 1916 - issue of additional green fibre disc ('Disc, identity, No. 1, Green', the red disc now being designated 'Disc, identity, No. 2, Red')

Peter

[DavidB]

Thanks Dave and Peter. There is always someone on the forum with this sort of info at their fingertips, and the production of same much appreciated.