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Territorials 1914


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#1 Lachlan

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 03:26 AM

Regarding TF soldiers who waived their home service rights in 1914, would they :-

- be posted as individuals or groups to regular battalions ?
- be posted only to a regular battalion of the same regiment or perhaps another territorial battalion of the same regiment going active ?
- be held in reserve until needed for a reinforcement draft ?
- be held with their TF battalion if it became active ?

#2 dycer

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:52 AM

Lachlan,
From the 8th Royal Scots War Diary.
1st November 1914-Intimation received by Telegram at 5 p.m. that the Battalion has to leave for service abroad and that a Company of the 8th Bn Highland Light Infantry would join the following day to complete the establishment of 8 Companies viz:6 Companies of 8th Royal Scots,1 Coy 6th Royal Scots and 1 Coy 8th H.L. Infantry.
From the same War Diary.
24th February 1915-Arrival of Draft of about 190 N.C.O's and Men principally drawn from the 8th H.L.I.
George

#3 Graham Stewart

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:58 AM

Good questions and an interesting reply from dycer, in that the 8th RS had to be brought up to establishment before proceding overseas and that they were also receiving drafts from other units. I can only speak on behalf of the Northumberlands who had no problems with their establishment and required no help from outside units, but many, many years ago I read the TF Minute Books for Durham T.F.A., which had letters from a Highland T.F.A.(can't remember which), asking if they could possibly recruit in Durham to make up numbers.

Regarding Lachlans' questions, it does get a bit more complicated and I did have a series of Orders regarding the formation of second line TF battalions, which intially were to be the draft finding units for the first line. However all of this went out of the window when considering those who did not ot could not sign up for "Imperial Service". This resulted in the second line becoming Home Service and a third line being formed which became the training & draft finding unit.

Generally the second line would seem to send their personnel to the first line unit on rescinding their HS status, but again I can't speak for Scottish units. On the advent of the Derby Scheme being introduced, this again caused more complications and when the first batches of these were called up in January 1916, they were sent to any TF unit that required them.

Also on top of which you had another ACI in 1915 appealing for TF personnel still in the UK to relinquish their TF status, take their Discharge and "re-enlist" as Regulars.

All in all not a very satisfactory answer, because it becomes so tied up with regulations and orders coming out and complicating matters.

#4 Steven Broomfield

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 09:58 AM

My understanding was that a TF soldier couldn't be transferred outside his unit without his agreement (until the Conscription acts changed it).

So, if Private Smith signed on with the 5th Blankshires, he could go to the 1/5th, 2/5th or 3/5th (assuming he'd taken the Inperial Service agreement and was happy to join the 1/5th in France, for example), but he couldn't be sent to the 6th, 1st, 15th or any other battalion, TF or otherwise.

As for recruiting within another TF unit;'s recruiting area - stricytly infra dig, I'd assume, without permission.

#5 Graham Stewart

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:06 AM

Steven has the more definitive answer, which would include those who rescind their Home Service status.

#6 bushfighter

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 03:21 PM

Attached File  War Office letter a 001.jpg   77.52KB   0 downloads


Attached File  War Office letter b 002.jpg   24.73KB   0 downloads


This War Office letter may help in this thread, or it may not!

Harry



#7 dycer

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 06:16 PM

From my recollection of the past muses "of a 14 year old member of the 8th Royal Scots,embodied,on the 4th August 1914"
Between August and November 1914, "His" Battalion was made ready for service abroad through route marches which he took great "pleasure" in doing but not falling out of, because of his age.
And continued to "serve" with his Battalion,throughout,earning the M.M.,in its service, until young age and "foreign service" took its toll,resulting in him being being unable to "celebrate" Victory,with "His" Battalion.
Georgde

#8 Anthony Gorst

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 06:52 PM

Regarding TF soldiers who waived their home service rights in 1914, would they :-

- be posted as individuals or groups to regular battalions ?
- be posted only to a regular battalion of the same regiment or perhaps another territorial battalion of the same regiment going active ?
- be held in reserve until needed for a reinforcement draft ?
- be held with their TF battalion if it became active ?


The unit that I have an interest in (12th London The Rangers part of the all territorial 56th (1st London) Division volunteered (after some persuasion - see thread about the Bishop of London) en mass - those who didn't (100) were returned to depot and formed the cadre of 2nd/12th which went to France in February 1917 (being absorbed a year later by 1st/12th London). 3rd/12th London formed early 1915 and remained at home throughout the war. (LLT)

#9 geraint

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:39 PM

Regarding TF soldiers who waived their home service rights in 1914, would they :-

- be posted as individuals or groups to regular battalions ?
- be posted only to a regular battalion of the same regiment or perhaps another territorial battalion of the same regiment going active ?
- be held in reserve until needed for a reinforcement draft ?
- be held with their TF battalion if it became active ?

In 1914, the RWF Territorial battalions five in total, varied in the % who didn't waive their home service. (Ie didn't go overseas). 4th RWF achieved strength within days "with reservists hurrying to our depot in Wrexham". I'm not sure if the adjutant is refering to 4th RWF reservists or RWF reservists in general. Probably 4th RWF reservists; for Frank Richards in OSND states that he as a 2nd RWF Regular Reservist also hurried to Wrexham depot on 4th August. He describes the depot as being so full that he had to sleep on the floor. He also states that "the Depot Sergeant Major would call for volunteers. On the evening of August 7th, he called for 10 volunteers to join the 2nd battalion. Every man there volunteered, and I was one of the selected ten."
To me, that indicates a depot full of reservists vying for the choice places - presumably in both regular and terrier battalions.
The history of the 4th RWF states that 88% opted for foreign service. The other four TF battalions were in their 70s%, and took longer to reach established strength, and didnot embark for France but were earmarked for Gallipoli and the eastern sectors.
The 4th were shipped to France 5th November 1914. The Adjutant also states that the men who didn't embark were older family men, and young boys.